Rally vs. Traditional Obedience - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Rally vs. Traditional Obedience

This got brought up on the other thread and I am interested in hearing people's opinions:

Someone said a rally group had been shamed out of an obedience club by the traditional people. Why? What is it that the other folks think is so shameful about rally? Less precision? More interaction with the dog?

I saw it mentioned somewhere that some people think that pure positive trainers can't compete at advanced AKC obedience & are creating easier venues because they can't hack it (not saying I agree or disagree just what I read). Is this part of the rally thing, or more to do with venues like Companion Dog Sports Prog that allow treats in the ring and praise but otherwise seem very similar to AKC?

What would be the benefit of competing in traditional AKC? Proving your dog in a more difficult venue than rally? Is traditional "harder" than higher levels of rally?
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:13 AM
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I don't know about the incident you reference. So I have no comment other than I'm glad I was not there or rather they should be!

I believe that it is common knowledge in the dog world that usually no two trainers agree on anything other than the fact that third trainer is doing it wrong. It's hilarious to me how many conversations turn this way at events! I often remind my wife right before going to any dog competition to watch for this and we talk about it on the way home "laughing all the way"

I can say this. I have been invited a few times to this Rally stuff and my gut has often told my mind to go but haven't as of yet. I am however going to start in it this summer. I can't wait!!!

This gives me a new idea for a bumper sticker, My Rally Dog ate his/her/your obedience DOGS lunch!
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:31 AM
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It goes both ways. Its just people and people not getting along. Some are going to look down on rally for every different reason there can be. Over time you're going to come across some people who like to present their rally titles as equal to every other venue when they declare themselves trainers or as working their dogs for breeding purposes. They're going to knock the other venues and in some cases its going to be because they weren't able to do well, for every individual reason there may be.

There's no formal venue you can't try and compete in with what you're thinking of, as far as positive only. In some things, the dog is going to decide what works. If what you want to use to motivate doesn't mean as much to them as something else, you aren't going to do as well.

Another thing too, as far as clubs. Most of the time, they don't owe anyone anything. Its a group of people getting together to do something they have in common and there's only so much time. If they want to go in a certain direction, maybe it just doesn't include rally. One thing I know when it comes to dog sports or even showing. You have to be reasonably thick skinned. If your dog isn't humbling you, something else will and its tough if it isn't fun. Concentrate on having fun.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:54 AM
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From the AKC website:

Quote:
AKC Rally® is a companion sport to AKC Obedience. It too requires teamwork between dog and handler along with performance skills similar to obedience. Rally provides an excellent introduction to AKC events for new dogs and handlers, and can provide a challenging opportunity for competitors in other events to strengthen their skills. All dogs are eligible to compete in rally.
Its not meant to be obedience. When some want to compare it and present it as equal rather then just enjoying their dog like its actual purpose, there's going to be some conflict with some others.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:55 AM
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The club I go to a lot of folks compete in several venues and they are all supportive of each other.And the rally trials are usually on separate days than the regular obedience trials so I haven't experienced any snobbery yet
Traditional OB exercises are more formal and precise.So more effort in training a perfect heel position,straight sits,etc.
Rally is the only way that some breeds can ever get in a ring and compete with their owners.The jumps are low for the extra large dogs that can't or shouldn't be going over 36" jumps,dogs that don't do well in group exercises,or don't want to be touched by the judge.

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Strom View Post
From the AKC website:


Its not meant to be obedience. When some want to compare it and present it as equal rather then just enjoying their dog like its actual purpose, there's going to be some conflict with some others.
Am I understanding correctly that when people try and present their rally dogs or rally accomplishments as equal to an accomplishment in a harder venue (I.e. traditional obedience), ppl get mad?


As far as titling to prove yourself / dog as a trainer or breeder rally would not be considered worthwhile?

I am not passing judgment on anyone or anything I am just asking questions to people who have more experience in all of these venues than I do....
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:16 AM
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I've competed and titled in both AKC Obedience and Rally, and unfortunately, there IS a big difference in attitude among the people.

Traditional Obedience has to be very precise (as Dogma mentioned), so it's all what YOUR goal is for you and your dog! The main thing is to enjoy whatever sport you venture into!

I used positive reinforcement in both venues.

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:27 AM
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The trainer I use and love trains as if the dog is going on to get CGC, rally and/or agility. Along with all the basics mine know directions(right, left, about turn, u-turn, etc) and got to do a small agility course as part of their training class(at the end of the class).

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
Am I understanding correctly that when people try and present their rally dogs or rally accomplishments as equal to an accomplishment in a harder venue (I.e. traditional obedience), ppl get mad?


As far as titling to prove yourself / dog as a trainer or breeder rally would not be considered worthwhile?

I am not passing judgment on anyone or anything I am just asking questions to people who have more experience in all of these venues than I do....
Its like anything, its how people present themselves and how other people want to accept them, or not. From either side. Enjoy the dogs and make friends with whoever you do.

Its not a matter of worthwhile. There's some amount of worth to all of it, but the skill's involved go up with different levels and how many different dogs a trainer has handled themselves and trained with others. Its pretty tough to tell someone you can train X when all you've ever done is B.
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 11:15 AM
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I guess it's human nature to form cliques. It's too bad the rally people felt pressured to leave the facility. I haven't been to a trial, but I've taken some rally classes, and they're a lot of fun. I like the idea of rally being a gateway to other venues. Our instructor competes in both obedience and rally, and she tries to teach us how to do things correctly/precisely in case we ever want to go on to compete in obedience. I think that anything that encourages more people to get out and do things with their dogs and get involved with training is good. I wonder if some obedience-folks worry that rally draws interest away from formal obedience, or makes them feel like they'll have to lower their standards or something. Who knows! Rally was more accessible to us. I wanted to take intermediate or advanced obedience classes, but rally and agility seemed to be all that are available (under an hour's drive) unless I wanted to hire a private trainer.
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