Out of sight stays/ AKC open level - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Question Out of sight stays/ AKC open level

Frank is training really well for his Open exercises but the out of sight stays are stopping us from showing at that level.
What I've done so far is: He'll do the stays in one spot at home and now I'm moving them to different spots around our yard and field, I set him up where I can see him but he can't see me, that way I can still correct him if he moves. we're having progress at home but when we go to class he doesn't even want me to walk outside of the practice ring, I'm still where he can see me easily but when I step outside the ring he'll try to follow me, if I stay in the ring he doesn't move.
A little extra info:
We have about 9 dogs in class so he is in a line up of dogs for those stays. (I also set him up at home with my other 2 dogs )
He just turned 2 so could age be a factor?
Am I on the right track in his training and just keep training in different spots at home till he's consistant and then start going out of sight in class?
My instructor said she thinks I'm on the right track just take it slow and he'll get it. (have to admit I'm not the most patient person on this earth)
Thanks for any ideas or advice.

frank(Rosehall's Duke of Hearts CD, BN, RN) gsd
indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 01:05 PM
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Is your dog is solid on his stays when you are in sight? Have you proofed them? There is no point in trying stays out of sight if you haven't.

If your dog is solid and you have truly proofed them in sight, then it's time to correct him for breaking them. The second he moves you need to mark it, go back and correct him back into place, and leave again. Keep it short so he has success and from time to time return and treat in place so he is rewarded for holding it.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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He's very solid in sight.
I've even has a squirrel almost across his paws when one of the other dogs chased it during a down stay, and Frank never moved.
But when I step out of sight whole different story, he is catching on at home I start with just walking of sight and back then working the amount of time up, I also treat for holding the stay just like you said. we're up to 3 min. out of sight at home. but I cant' get it to transfer to class.

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indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 01:39 PM
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I think this can be difficult for our velcro gsd's I agree with your trainer, taking it slow, and what I usually do when I begin training this, is like you, at home, but maybe leave, come back and treat, start slowly 'upping your time away'..

3 minutes is an eternity, and I believe it's 5 in open??? I'd do the same thing in class, leave, immediately return, start upping your time when he's successful , if he moves, step back go back to where you get that 'stay' out of him.

He is young, and honestly I find those boys much more physically velcroey than my girls..Good luck !

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 02:59 PM
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You need to start doing your stays away from home and don't be afraid to correct him for breaking them as you say he understands them. Stays are hands down the easiest exercise to teach your dog as it's a very black and white exercise. All they have to do is not move, unlike heeling where there's forging, lagging, wide, bouncing, and all sorts of other things for him the think about. If the dog stays, life is good. If he moves, he gets corrected. Keep them very short so he has a chance to succeed. Start by stepping out of sight for a second and then return. Don't forget the treats for holding it.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA View Post
I think this can be difficult for our velcro gsd's I agree with your trainer, taking it slow, and what I usually do when I begin training this, is like you, at home, but maybe leave, come back and treat, start slowly 'upping your time away'..

3 minutes is an eternity, and I believe it's 5 in open??? I'd do the same thing in class, leave, immediately return, start upping your time when he's successful , if he moves, step back go back to where you get that 'stay' out of him.

He is young, and honestly I find those boys much more physically velcroey than my girls..Good luck !
Thanks, we'll continue to take it slow and steady till he has the idea down.
It's a 3 min sit/stay and a 5 min down/stay, he has to do both to qualify.
Frank is so velcroey he's more like a duct tape dog , I think that's what is making the out of sight so hard for us.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaine View Post
You need to start doing your stays away from home and don't be afraid to correct him for breaking them as you say he understands them. Stays are hands down the easiest exercise to teach your dog as it's a very black and white exercise. All they have to do is not move, unlike heeling where there's forging, lagging, wide, bouncing, and all sorts of other things for him the think about. If the dog stays, life is good. If he moves, he gets corrected. Keep them very short so he has a chance to succeed. Start by stepping out of sight for a second and then return. Don't forget the treats for holding it.
I correct him the minute he moves, I've watched his so much it's like I can see the thought come into his head before he moves.
I've started the out of sights at class I walk out of the ring and back in before he can think to move and praise him for staying we'll work up from there.
I think he knows the stay, but it's the fact that I'm leaving that bothers him, he does well in his crate and with the rest of the family when I'm not home, but if he knows I'm home or close he does not like to be seperated from me for anything.

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indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
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Rowdy (MyHearts Red Treasure) Australian Shepherd
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Franksmom View Post
Frank is training really well for his Open exercises but the out of sight stays are stopping us from showing at that level.
What I've done so far is: He'll do the stays in one spot at home and now I'm moving them to different spots around our yard and field, I set him up where I can see him but he can't see me, that way I can still correct him if he moves. we're having progress at home but when we go to class he doesn't even want me to walk outside of the practice ring, I'm still where he can see me easily but when I step outside the ring he'll try to follow me, if I stay in the ring he doesn't move.
A little extra info:
We have about 9 dogs in class so he is in a line up of dogs for those stays. (I also set him up at home with my other 2 dogs )
He just turned 2 so could age be a factor?
Am I on the right track in his training and just keep training in different spots at home till he's consistant and then start going out of sight in class?
My instructor said she thinks I'm on the right track just take it slow and he'll get it. (have to admit I'm not the most patient person on this earth)
Thanks for any ideas or advice.

At 2yo, age is not a factor in him not doing out of sight stays - he is plenty old enough to to it. training and proofing are the keys. Is he 100% on 3/5+ minute stays with you in sight but a real good distance away? I.E. 50-100' maybe?

If not, then forget about the out of sight stays until he is solid with you there.

Then I would ssart doing very short out of sight stays (with a firm correction if he breaks it). And then slowly lenghten the time until you can do it for considerably longer than the trial times - i.e. at least 10/15 minutes out of sight. Sounds impossible now but take heart - once your pup gets the idea the time will not be a problem.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by codmaster View Post
At 2yo, age is not a factor in him not doing out of sight stays - he is plenty old enough to to it. training and proofing are the keys. Is he 100% on 3/5+ minute stays with you in sight but a real good distance away? I.E. 50-100' maybe?

If not, then forget about the out of sight stays until he is solid with you there.

Then I would ssart doing very short out of sight stays (with a firm correction if he breaks it). And then slowly lenghten the time until you can do it for considerably longer than the trial times - i.e. at least 10/15 minutes out of sight. Sounds impossible now but take heart - once your pup gets the idea the time will not be a problem.
His stays are solid with me at about 30 feet away for as long as I leave him, hadn't thought of lengthing the distance but staying in sight we'll try that. Thanks

frank(Rosehall's Duke of Hearts CD, BN, RN) gsd
indy (Indy Bluestorm CD, GN, RN,CGC) BC
king bc mix
Rowdy (MyHearts Red Treasure) Australian Shepherd
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 09:51 PM
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i'm not in the ring but my dog has a strong stay.
strangers can call him, offer him treats, pull his leash,
step over him, walk all around with their dogs but he
doesn't move. i taught him stay slowly. first i had him
sit in front. i would say "stay" and take a little step
backwards. the little step became 1 step then 2 steps
and so on. for out of sight stay i would have my dog
sit beside the tire of the car. i say "stay" then i would walk
to the front of the car and duck so he couldn't see me. we did that
for a while. then i woyld hide behind a tree. sometimes i would have him
sit in the yard and i would walk into the house. in the house i would
sit him near a door and i would walk to the other side of the door.
for all of these stays i slowly added in distractions (people calling him,
walking near him with their dogs, etc. in the begining wherever
he was staioned to stay i only did it for a few seconds. the
seconds became minutes and the minutes became 5 minutes,
10 minutes, 15 minutes and so on. when i was doing out of sight stays
i use to sing, bang on things, talk out loud, stump my feet, etc.
i thought being out of sight but making noise would strengthen
his stay.

start retraining. take it slow. add in the distractions slowly.
if you can set up a ring situation that would be helpfull.
good luck in the ring.

the situations i discussed for teaching my dog to stay
was only a few examples. i set him up in a lot of situations.
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