Long Haired Intact Male GSD in Connecticut - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 46Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 10:30 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,255
Double post, sorry!

Last edited by Jchrest; 10-08-2019 at 10:34 PM.
Jchrest is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 11:03 PM
Crowned Member
 
LuvShepherds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,730
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmonte View Post
Not sure about this info but sometimes neutering a dog makes it more manageable to some people..
Before about six months, but that isn’t recommended. Afterwards, neutering can make an aggressive dog even more aggressive.
LuvShepherds is offline  
post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 9
Thank you everyone for weighing in. I am reading through what you all have posted and will respond to questions when I can, a bit under the weather currently. Briefly, however:

1. No worries about me putting him on Craiglist, etc. And IF someone here did present who was interested in giving him a home, of course I'd investigate the heck out of them.
2. Thank you for suggesting trainers, included those who messaged me privately. The problem is frankly, at the moment, I cannot afford it. I'm a homeowner on one average income and barely paying the bills, having recently been hit with a slew of unanticipated costs. I know that sounds like an excuse but it's true, embarrassing as it is to admit.
KimJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 08:29 AM
Elite Member
 
CometDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 1,713
Life happens. Yes we should all set out when getting a dog with a good solid time and financial plan. A dog is a 10 plus year commitment and sometimes life changes drastically year by year. People should not feel they have to apologize and explain details of their current financial statement. Personally I would only judge someone who was having a huge problem who said they can't afford a private trainer right now if they were eating out everyday, going on nice vacations, buying designer clothes. Even then it isn't my position to judge but I would lol "you mean you won't afford, not can't".

Anyway, if money is tight that is very understandable. Can you get to an IGP club? Most are between 100 to 150 per month. And you meet every weekend. At the absolute very least you may get names of trusted breed evaluators or even just a breed educated opinion of someone who meets your dog. I know when I had to make this decision, I needed to be absolutely sure.

I don't mean to be a downer, but if you used actual behaviorists and trainers as you said, even if they aren't GSD specific- when they make errors it tends to be in the positive direction. The we can fix this, it's all in how you raise and train them direction. It's rare for any established trainer to knee jerk the other way to euthanizing. Their livelihood hinges on success stories. If they are actually in business, and advertise etc, they are not going to be quick to go the direction they went with you. It just would not be conducive from a business model to take that direction lightly. They must have really seen something. Just food for thought.
Stevenzachsmom likes this.

Valor 6/3/17

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- 6/3/17
Blitzen 2/21/19

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CometDog is offline  
post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 12:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Saco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 348
I am just going to throw this into the mix, knowing that cost is a concern. Consider building an escape proof dog enclosure. With a fenced roof, cement floor, weatherproof dog kennel. Silas can stay there if you have an emergency need to travel, when guests are over, when you go to work, etc. That reduces a lot of liability. If your son is handy or you have some friends who are, they can come over and help build and materials aren't all that pricey. Look up plans on line. You can even make it so someone could feed/water, and hose out the pen if you were in a real bind and were hospitalized or unable to care for him for a bit.

I'm not entirely clear on your relationship with him. Is he aggressive toward you and your son?

I read over your initial post again, and I don't see any major red flags telling me this dog needs to be euthanized.

Consider working with him- just you and him- in tracking and nose work. I guarantee this will help your bond, and he'll most likely love it. Lots and lots of resources for starting out online. If you really like it, you can title in nosework.

If you are willing to travel, I recommend a consult with this trainer. I know and like him. He owns and trains GSD/malis and he is a solid guy who will give you an honest assessment. An eval isn't going to cost you a whole lot of money. And, hey, it is peak foliage in the north country. King K9 Academy Training & Rehabilitation - King K9 Academy
sebrench likes this.
Saco is offline  
post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 12:41 PM
Knighted Member
 
sebrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saco View Post
I'm not entirely clear on your relationship with him. Is he aggressive toward you and your son? [/url]
I was also wondering what exactly he is doing. Aggression towards outsiders is one thing, aggression towards family members is another. It was helpful to see the trainers' evaluations, and I'm glad you included them, but I wasn't entirely clear on how the dog is behaving and to whom he is being aggressive, and what you have tried to do to correct the behavior. I would be hesitant to recommend euthanisia unless I knew the exact details of the situation. Yes, if the dog was truly a danger to your family then hard decisions would have to be made. In many cases, aggression towards strangers and dogs can be managed with the right set up and mindset. Dogs don't have to be free in the house when guests are over. In fact, even though my GSDs are not inappropriately aggresive, I usually put them outside or in a closed room when we have visitors just because they're big and formidable and lots of folks are wary of them. But then again, I'm a hermit, and try not to have visitors over too often.
Saco likes this.

Last edited by sebrench; 10-09-2019 at 12:47 PM.
sebrench is offline  
post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 12:43 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,255
No need to be embarrassed that you cannot afford an expensive trainer. I’ve has a lot of ups and downs this year, and a lot of that affected me financially. There is no shame in admitting that you know your dog needs help, but you are not in a financial position to do so.

I think the biggest thing here is the cause/direction of the aggression, and the unknown for us reading. Is he aggressive towards you and your son? You mentioned him being too sensitive to groom. How does he react when you go to brush him?

Lyka did the same “I’m cool” thing when people were sitting, and then chased them out with ankle nips when they got up to leave. It’s fear causing that. They are okay when the person is sitting because they don’t see anything threatening. When they stand, however, it’s putting him into a panicked flight or fight mode, and he’s going for the fear fight. Get them out of my house as quickly as I possibly can. This is easy to work out, but time consuming.

Biting the trainer? I’d have wanted to bite him too. Let someone three times your size flip you and hold you in submission, and see if your natural fight instincts don’t come out. Biting the tech that muzzled him, not great, but not the worse thing that has ever happened in a vets office, I can promise you that. But what was the outcome of the bite? Did he puncture skin? Or was it a quick warning mouthing going on? If he showed bite inhibition and didn’t apply pressure behind his bite, it’s not a dog I would even consider euthanizing.

What have you done training wise yourself? Do you do continued training with him on a daily basis? Even my 9yr old still gets a kick out of her short 10-15 minute daily sessions.

Not sure what info you have been messaged, but keep in mind, even members on this forum with a ton of experience contradict each other, and some seem like they know their stuff, but have questionable methods. Just be very choosey in who/what advice you’re taking, including my own! We all have different experiences, different directions we want to take our dogs in, and some know a lot about the breed, but have only worked with puppies from reputable breeders, so they started off on good footing. Some have only had rescues and wouldn’t know what to do with a great breeder pup because they are so much easier than working with nerved dogs, that training can often fall to the weigh-side and they let them “train themselves.” And of course, everyone in the middle of the two as well.

I really do wish you and your guy all the luck, and hope you can find a way to get him in a better place mentally, or physically if it’s something you just can’t take on yourself.
Jchrest is offline  
post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 02:25 PM
Knighted Member
 
Sunsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,118
Okay, here's what I'm seeing that really shows the situation:

My recommendations begin with safe management + training respectful behavior towards you and you son. ...If you want to keep him in your home, avoid being injured or getting sued I’d jump on the training bandwagon ASAP. I don’t care a lot about what you train him to do. I supply some general recommendations in the handouts and Training section below but we’ve got to get his youthful cheeky behavior on the home front under control. "

"his young behavioral history speaks more to me about a genetic fearful tendency than a specific issue with other dogs UNLESS he had some particularly untoward negative experiences very early on. I think he is insecure by nature and likely always has been..... but you are going to need to make some significant changes in your behavior and emotions in order to keep him safe with you. "

"You really need to seriously work on changing your relationship if you want to safely keep Silas in your home. He seems incapable of adjusting his emotional state towards his presumed “enemy” or “competitor”. I do believe Silas views you as more of a resource than a guardian.

So, the dog is not being respectful towards his owner. He sees the owner as more of a resource, i.e. dispenser of food and treats, than someone to be respected and obeyed.

As has been said above, the animal behaviourist says it doesn't matter WHAT the owner trains the dog to do - the need is to get the dog to start obeying, and doing as it is told, instead of just doing as it pleases.

It is this that makes me think this dog CAN be saved, but the owner first of all needs to learn HOW to train, rather than just letting the dog walk all over her.
sebrench and tim_s_adams like this.
Sunsilver is offline  
post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 02:39 PM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsilver View Post
Okay, here's what I'm seeing that really shows the situation:

My recommendations begin with safe management + training respectful behavior towards you and you son. ...If you want to keep him in your home, avoid being injured or getting sued I’d jump on the training bandwagon ASAP. I don’t care a lot about what you train him to do. I supply some general recommendations in the handouts and Training section below but we’ve got to get his youthful cheeky behavior on the home front under control. "

"his young behavioral history speaks more to me about a genetic fearful tendency than a specific issue with other dogs UNLESS he had some particularly untoward negative experiences very early on. I think he is insecure by nature and likely always has been..... but you are going to need to make some significant changes in your behavior and emotions in order to keep him safe with you. "

"You really need to seriously work on changing your relationship if you want to safely keep Silas in your home. He seems incapable of adjusting his emotional state towards his presumed “enemy” or “competitor”. I do believe Silas views you as more of a resource than a guardian.

So, the dog is not being respectful towards his owner. He sees the owner as more of a resource, i.e. dispenser of food and treats, than someone to be respected and obeyed.

As has been said above, the animal behaviourist says it doesn't matter WHAT the owner trains the dog to do - the need is to get the dog to start obeying, and doing as it is told, instead of just doing as it pleases.

It is this that makes me think this dog CAN be saved, but the owner first of all needs to learn HOW to train, rather than just letting the dog walk all over her.
But she can't afford a trainer? OP is probably not going to be able to responsibly rehome this dog.

A really good rescue, a really good trainer, or a really good breeder could possibly responsibly rehome him with resources and knowledge (neither of which OP has). A good rescue isn't going to touch him because of the bite history. Sounds like maybe the breeder is not so good or unwilling/unable to help since they already said to euth.

That leaves a good trainer. She can't afford a b&t, can she afford and is she willing to buckle down with a good one on one trainer?

I suspect that due to all these factors this dog never leaves his property, is that correct? So he is potentially way frustrated and under exercised and understimulated?
Thecowboysgirl is offline  
post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 02:59 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 9,693
There are trainers and vets who don't have a clue about behavior. Train him to accept the (basket)muzzle first and never have him off leash in the presence of anyone who he can be a danger to.
Vasectomy vs neutering seems better. He needs his testosterone to build confidence and drive. Neutering will turn his coat to mush as well ( I know it is not the most crucial issue here) Work him well so he is physically and mentally tire/spent. Be happy and upbeat with him. Don't blame him for anything. Leash time inside and outside and crate time is what I wold give him.
Next time at the vet, only take medical advice and YOU are the one taking off the muzzle, once you are back in the car with him. Isn't there an IPO club in your area that can help you? Prozac in humans can work against the issue so maybe with dogs as well?
Do not return him to the breeder as she will put him down. Where are you located (PM me if needed). I think he has several options and it is not hopeless but it will take time to find the right place. I also think you haven't found the right 'professionals' yet. This dog needs leadership, someone who has his back that he can rely on. But a basket muzzle would come first for me.
wolfy dog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome