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post #31 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 03:12 PM
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Police often pay as much as 7500 dollars for dogs....go to any site that sells to police/military....like AK9 and see how much police will pay for dogs. Or better yet talk to a vendor that supplies to police/military ....you can get a good sport dog for 5, or 6000 dollars....so that is not primary reason ....sure some PD have limited budgets, but many pay top dollar.....Ladylaw gave primary reason and it is supply and demand....that is there are more of the Mals that are capable percentage wise of doing this work....so they meet the supply.
Lol dogs capable of dual purpose work are generally above the 7k mark. They are definitely not a cheaper option. Like Cliff says more mals capable of working to a level required by Military and LE. Size is just an added bonus not a deciding factor. I believe Mike Suttle said that he stopped breeding GSDs a while back and only does mals and dutchies. There is a message there for those who want to hear it.

That being said I think the money will keep a lot of breeders in GSDs. You cant just go out and start breeding LE quality Mals and sell them for 5k each.

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post #32 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Ringsport is cool, but I do not think it transfers over all that well to real life.

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post #33 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 06:12 PM
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SOrry, I should specify I'm talking about French Ring. Not familiar enough with stuff like Mondio to comment on that.

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post #34 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
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Well I hear the message. GSD not bred to LE/Military standard sooooo

What are the solutions then? A different breed test? More serious/civil GSD?
Cliffson do you have any ideas?
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post #35 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 08:19 PM
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Well I hear the message. GSD not bred to LE/Military standard sooooo

What are the solutions then? A different breed test? More serious/civil GSD?
Cliffson do you have any ideas?
I would love to see KNPV or a similar sport that put actual pressure on the dogs but if wishes were fishes.

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post #36 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 08:32 PM
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KNPV is more than sport... it prepares the dogs for K9 patrol and many of the dogs after titling will be sold for just that. Most often, the goal of the handler is to train for titles and then sell the dog to a working career LEO or security handler(crowd control at the soccer games!).

The KNPV decoys and handlers aren't into the larger GSD structure, they prefer the smaller pocket rockets!
I had a conversation with a couple KNPV trainer/handlers and they thought the GSD's were wrought with health issues as well as the temperament(courage) downslide. Of course that was just two opinions....
They did suitwork with a few of our dogs and were impressed with them, but I could tell they were not into working the larger GSD structure.

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post #37 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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@ Rockchipper....I have proposed solutions for years on this forum....but alas there are too many people in denial about the downward trend in working abilities as you can see from this thread. But two things come to mind readily....1). Get rid of lines based on color, angulation, big heads, side gait, and sport drives, 2) minimize people's likes in breeding and encourage breeders and judges to reward functionality over aesthetics.
I could write a book on other aspects as can a few others on the forum....but I think the above would go a long way if those two things were the focus of breeders and judges.
But I really don't want to go into this discussion because it always denigrates to people getting defensive and think their personal dog is slighted. Take care.
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post #38 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-25-2013, 08:18 AM
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believe Mike Suttle said that he stopped breeding GSDs a while back and only does mals and dutchies. There is a message there for those who want to hear it.
A recent video on Mike Suttle/ Logan Haus:

Greenbrier County dog kennel breeds the world's most elite work - Beckley, Bluefield & Lewisburg News, Weather, Sports

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post #39 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-25-2013, 08:53 AM
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Those guys were out with us for one day in Afghanistan (dog teams i mean) they said they wouldn't go out with us after the first day because the area was to volatile and too many ieds. Wtf, over. But the dogs were great to have around for morale if not Anything else. I'm glad to have my own.

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post #40 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Here are some vids of Mike Suttle testing dogs for patrol purposes in protection, posted on another forum. This gives you a good idea about how much pressure these dogs are required to handle. These dogs are green and being tested for acceptance into his program I believe. He said these ones did really well. Apparently they get one try at this test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnFZ...-4FkkW1pWhuM8A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPnc...-4FkkW1pWhuM8A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO3f...-4FkkW1pWhuM8A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cftn...-4FkkW1pWhuM8A

What do all these dogs have in common?

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