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post #21 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 07:37 PM
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Our local police still use GSDs, at least according to their web site. I'm sure with the military, size does play into it. When rappelling with a ruck sac, m16/203, and a dog, I know which one I'd pick.
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post #22 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 08:46 PM
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OH, don't worry. The Mal is already going down the pooper. Just takes a little popularity and TV air time to ruin a breed. I've seen quite a few of the showline type Mals lately that are just as bad if not worst than the showline type GSD's people complain about. A guy just came out to our club with his new Mal he got because of his BYB GSD. The dog cowered behind the owner with it's tail tucked between its legs when the helper tried to get the dog to play with the tug. The military might have an easier time finding Mals that fit their niche because there are a handful of good Mal breeders who are producing what they want. But they too are just one TV show away from being in a worse state than GSD's IMO.

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post #23 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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The GS has a giant population to chose from, the BM is very small in numbers, the Mals are becoming or have become the go to dog. I am not a BM fan, other than immense respect for their working ability....but it is easy to see why the GS is not the supreme utility dog anymore....not even the best sport dog in the sport that was made for them. Check out statistics when these two breeds compete head to head. As long as people have their heads in the sand ( especially breeders ) about the loss of working ability of this breed, the pendulum will not swing back. There is a reason that the breeding kennels that the military has invested in is primarily Mals. I understand the sentiment, and the emotions, but the stats are what they are.
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post #24 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-23-2013, 09:25 PM
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i have witnessed arguments here on this board where people flatly deny that there are more mals than gsd in leo & mwd, cos they know someone who knows someone who works near a millitary base or police station and they seen a bunch of gsd running around.

i guess the first step in any solution is acknowledging there is in fact a problem.....but then again what problem? a good show line gsd is worth a lot more money in puppy sales and stud fees than two dozen working mals currently serving on the line.

carry on.



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The GS has a giant population to chose from, the BM is very small in numbers, the Mals are becoming or have become the go to dog. I am not a BM fan, other than immense respect for their working ability....but it is easy to see why the GS is not the supreme utility dog anymore....not even the best sport dog in the sport that was made for them. Check out statistics when these two breeds compete head to head. As long as people have their heads in the sand ( especially breeders ) about the loss of working ability of this breed, the pendulum will not swing back. There is a reason that the breeding kennels that the military has invested in is primarily Mals. I understand the sentiment, and the emotions, but the stats are what they are.
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post #25 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 05:07 AM
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The fact is that for dual purpose dogs it is easier to find the ball drive we need in mals and dutchies along with the temperament for patrol work. They are cheaper and plentiful overseas. Germans have done away with DPO/WPO and sport is watered down. Those who breed for KNPV are producing what we need in general.
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post #26 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thx ladylaw!.....nice to get facts on this subject from someone who deals with it daily.
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post #27 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ladylaw203 View Post
The fact is that for dual purpose dogs it is easier to find the ball drive we need in mals and dutchies along with the temperament for patrol work. They are cheaper and plentiful overseas. Germans have done away with DPO/WPO and sport is watered down. Those who breed for KNPV are producing what we need in general.
I didn't even think of that but as an accountant I always follow the money trail. And that's right, the German imports have a much larger market, with people willing to pay much more for a sport dog than a police department can afford to pay for that same dog to become a patrol dog. And we all know that those sport people aren't switching to Mals out of principle rather than performance. People like to work with breed X and they'll continue to do it and they have the money to afford those good GSDs where the police departments don't. Simple supply and demand, so the police departments will go with a substitute since they don't have a strong feeling towards breed X.
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post #28 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Police often pay as much as 7500 dollars for dogs....go to any site that sells to police/military....like AK9 and see how much police will pay for dogs. Or better yet talk to a vendor that supplies to police/military ....you can get a good sport dog for 5, or 6000 dollars....so that is not primary reason ....sure some PD have limited budgets, but many pay top dollar.....Ladylaw gave primary reason and it is supply and demand....that is there are more of the Mals that are capable percentage wise of doing this work....so they meet the supply.
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post #29 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 01:24 PM
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A local police department was just trying to raise $15000 to get a dog. I'm assuming an older what would be considered "green" dog. They ended up having a few very large donations and are now getting two dogs. I'm not sure how much of the $15000 is actually the price of the dog and what part is for training of the handler for the first few months, but I know a person that was offered $15000 for her "green" dog that is about to go for his SchHI this summer.

I remember a post from a while back where someone imported a dog from Germany for 5 figures...it was just a green dog, about 1 year old and clearly not trained in any type of advanced protection or even Schutzhund. The forum ripped apart the video of the dog biting a flirt pole and taking a sleeve and the person left knowing they probably over paid for the dog. Sure...a knowledgeable person would've known to only pay $5000 to $6000 but then there is a whole slew of people that think its cool to import a dog and will pay anything for it.

I once met a lady at a dog park that imported a GSD bitch. I asked her why she imported and she said she just wanted a cool/good pet. Told me the price she paid for her too...$5000. That dog was no different than my boy or any other well bred GSD you could get in the United States. She wasn't getting her because of a special pedigree, or because she was doing some sort of special work with her. She got her because she could afford to and then she could tell people that she had an imported dog. Basically, the "cool" factor. Sadly the police departments have to compete with that cool factor and as of yet, the Malanois hasn't entered that point.
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post #30 of 72 (permalink) Old 04-24-2013, 01:48 PM
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Check out KNPV videos and you'll understand why malinois are the breed of choice for military/police.

There is no question that there are GSD out there that are capable of the work, but malinois are much more specifically bred for the work these days. I believe the "breed test", if that is the right term, for malinois is KNPV or ringsport which fairly directly transfers over to what is needed for a military/police dog.

There already are pet malinois out of show-lines. They are a very different dog. I hope those looking to get a malinois will go to the show lines and not working lines. That would be an ideal solution to what people are worried about.
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