No Drive?! - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 01:34 PM
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Re: No Drive?!

I am wondering whether there is a different centre you might wish to go to? I believe that continuing with this system will completely de-motivate both your dog and yourself. It's happened to me, and it's frustrating and unnecessary.

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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 01:47 PM
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Re: No Drive?!

Take a step back and just work on drive building and forget all of this other stuff as it's being done WAY too soon. If he does not have the drive and attitude while playing you will never get the picture you want in OB. And completely throw the heeling patterns out of the window. My dog has never done the entire BH pattern yet, and will not until the day of the trial (this weekend). Now, he has done all of the pieces of it, but not the exact pattern. I am walking the pattern all week on my own, but if the dog can heel he can heel regardless of pattern. You job is to be FUN and INTERESTING and UNPREDICTABLE which results in your dog always staying engaged.

Take a look at Leerburg's "building drive and focus" DVD. It is not a complete training guide or anything, but for you in your situation it would be a great resource and will teach you a game that will build his drive while laying the foundation for obedience that is actually in drive (you know, the state of CRAZINESS that your trainer says is too hard to work with).

John
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Drive?!

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Chris Wild
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Craig88Every so often we reward the dog with the treat, although he's not too interested and generally gives a weak bite.
I must not be understanding something here... what does a treat (food) have to do with biting something?
Sorry, meant toy not treat. The more knowledge i've gained, the more I question our training each week.

I've been trying to play with him a lot with minimum obedience to increase drive but I think the correct reward(toy/treat) is needed first. I'll buy the rubber ball tomorrow. I'm hopefully going to get that video from a member at the other club i've been going to. They are the GSD club and until i've a gsd I wont be able to train there.

The only useful parts about this club is that it's good for networking, possible studding, getting my dog used to being around people and dogs and doing protection training although after about 8 months he's still not on the sleeve and still has shallow bites with not much barking. Maybe it's just genetics...
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No Drive?!

My trainer also says that we should never praise the dog when he's doing a down because that's an inferior position. After all the nonsense he's been talking i'n not sure what to make of this. Is this true?
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 07:38 PM
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Re: No Drive?!

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Originally Posted By: Craig88My trainer also says that we should never praise the dog when he's doing a down because that's an inferior position. After all the nonsense he's been talking i'n not sure what to make of this. Is this true?
No, that's not true. When a dog does well, he should be praised and rewarded. Period.

Sure, a down is a submissive position, but I don't see what that has to do with whether or not the dog should be praised. And through training, the dog should come to view it as merely a position like any other, not an act of submission.

Actually, if one is going to use the argument about it being an "inferior position" in relation to praise, I would think the opposite would apply and he should be praised for taking such an uncomfortable position when asked to. He needs to be comfortable in the down, and praise is part of achieving that.

This trainer is.... weird.


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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 08:58 PM
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Re: No Drive?!

Chris as always has made some great points.

I am not a certified trainer, but I have worked with and taught some classes. What you current trainer is doing is not helping to bring out your pups drive but doing every thing to shut it down. I always reward the down more than I do a sit, why because I have seen too many dogs trained with methods that weren't happy for the dog, these dogs always make me cringe when they down because it is slow and agonizing. I want a fast and happy down, I want the dog to know that it is a happy position and command for the dog.

Try different toys and food reward for the pup bringing the toy back. Do short throws and some longer throws. Mix in a little OB work with the ball playing, some quick sits and quick downs. Mix things up and have fun.


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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 09:38 PM
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Re: No Drive?!

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Chris WildNo, that's not true. When a dog does well, he should be praised and rewarded. Period.

Sure, a down is a submissive position, but I don't see what that has to do with whether or not the dog should be praised. And through training, the dog should come to view it as merely a position like any other, not an act of submission.

Actually, if one is going to use the argument about it being an "inferior position" in relation to praise, I would think the opposite would apply and he should be praised for taking such an uncomfortable position when asked to. He needs to be comfortable in the down, and praise is part of achieving that.

This trainer is.... weird.
I cannot even put into words how much I agree with everything said above. If there is somewhere else to train, don't walk RUN. If not, your objective should be to hear your trainer telling you your dog is nuts and out of control (in drive).

John
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No Drive?!

I just trained him now with some food and he was so much better. Everything was just fast in comparison to his usual slow movement and i had his attention in heeling for much longer than any toy has ever held it.

The only hassle with food is that it takes a while to make and i need to make sure he doesn't get fed breakfast, which is quite hard with my mother who thinks i'm being cruel...

I definitly think that the trainer has spent 20 years thinking about the cash he can make from breeding rather than worrying about learning training methods. He also says that I JUST need to learn how to play properly with the toy so my dog will be interested.

I'm going to give him another session later on today with the new ball i'm about to buy and have as little control as possible and see how much effort he puts in.
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 08:36 AM
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Re: No Drive?!

Your dog doesn't need to be HUNGRY for training. Feed him breakfast. Then train him with some great smelly treats - pieces of hotdog, smelly cheese, something he really likes.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 08:42 AM
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Re: No Drive?!

Quote:
Originally Posted By: ddYour dog doesn't need to be HUNGRY for training. Feed him breakfast. Then train him with some great smelly treats - pieces of hotdog, smelly cheese, something he really likes.
Some dogs do need to be hungry, and skip a meal to really want to work for food. But I would definitely try the extra special, stinky food first, before resorting to making him skip a meal. It may have high enough value for him as it is, without him being super hungry. Or he may need to skip a meal, or eat only half a meal, earlier in the day to be willing to work for the food. You'll have to try different things to figure out what works best for the individual dog.


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