Still Leash Pulling... - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Alyssa & Olivia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 42
Question Still Leash Pulling...

I've been working on Olivia's pulling for around 5 - 6 months now and I feel I have made little to no progress.


I've been doing various versions of the treat training but all she seems to do is eat the treat and pull even harder.

I've used normal collars but she has a tendency to slip out so I no longer walk her on them. (She is not a dog I can off leash walk)

I've used martingales but she ends up pulling so hard she chokes herself, even when loose.

I've used a head halter (?) and we both discovered it wasn't a good fit, despite treat training and conditioning.

We've tried the walking in different directions as well as stopping when she pulls.

I've tried having her stay at my side with a very short leash and I just ended up with a burn from the force of her pulling.


So right now we've just been using a harness with a front ring and that has worked decent. However she's gotten so big that she still manages to yank me around.


Are there any other methods I should be exploring?

She loves eating the treats but I can't get her to focus enough that she slows down. She knows the focus command and will do her tricks on walks but can't seem to slow down for whatever reason.

She slows down when sniffing things which she does whenever flowers are nearby (yes she sniffs flowers, no clue why.) When there is no plants to sniff she just trucks along.


All of these methods were tried for several weeks daily with consistency.

No prong or shock collar suggestions please, I know they work for some but I would rather not.


Any advice, other ways to treat train, etc?

Please be specific in each step you do, that way I don't miss anything that could help.

Thanks!
Alyssa & Olivia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 06:21 AM
Moderator
 
car2ner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,242
The only way to stop a behavior is to make it uncomfortable to do it. In your case it means no moving at all no matter how long it takes if the dog isn't in position. Although this technique works I personally found it took too long and was more frustrating for me than for my dog! The idea of turning around and walking the other way had it's limits as my dogs thought it was part of a game. It worked until there was a competing motivator, like a critter or another dog or a really interesting scent, that made it worth it to them to leash pressure me (tugging) to get to the thing that was more interesting than me.



Treats are to encourage a good behavior but you've seen the good behavior ends after the treat is eaten. To be fair, many of us use the treat as a release. When we ask for something like a "sit" once the treat is given the sit is released. Like a game of tug, the reward marks the end of the asked for behavior. If you want the behavior to continue you need to ask for it again. If you want to use rewards only you'll have to give your command, take a few good steps, reward, give your command and take a few more good steps, reward, repeat. It will work but you won't be taking any long walks for awhile. Not everyone has that kind of patience.

This is why we went with a prong collar. Yes, dogs can be trained without them but using the prong made the process faster and we could enjoy long walks together much sooner. No yank and crank with the prong, just a natural discomfort from pulling. If motivated enough, a dog will still pull wearing a prong. But they won't choke themselves like they will with a martingale or flat collar.

For sniffing plants, bushes and grass trap scent very well. Walks are be all about smelling everything. We look around, they sniff around. For a stubborn sniffer I give the collar a quick tug and a move along command. If my dog ignores me I walk into their head, pushing it aside from the smell with my lower leg...slowly but firmly. I then give the move along command and reward when they catch up with me. If they come with me right away even if they really really like the scent, I might praise them and let them return to the smell as the reward.

Also bring a toy! You have to be interesting during a walk. Imagine yourself walking with a human friend. If your friend doesn't say anything and is boring, how long will you pay attention to them before you start looking around or thinking about heading home? Same with your dog. If you are boring they'll start looking around for something more fun to do. You don't have to be a circus clown. Sometimes your dog has to behave "just because" but over all they should enjoy the process of being with you.
Alyssa & Olivia likes this.

about.me/car2ner
Patton CGC BH
Chief fetch fanatic

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Last edited by car2ner; 11-15-2018 at 06:23 AM.
car2ner is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 09:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Beau's Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 310
Olivia is the fear-aggressive pup you asked about in another thread, right? Is her pulling anxiety/fear-related, too? Or just no leash manners yet?
Alyssa & Olivia likes this.
Beau's Mom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Malibu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 422
Stand still with dog at your side in a sit position. Only give a short lose leash and as soon as she pulls the leash tight you walk RIGHT THROUGH her to the left and swing back to the right and stop. Start again and in my experience 3-5 times of walking into her head they start to look at your face. Everyone I showed this to got great results right in front of my eyes. Don't walk until a sit and take off looking ahead and confident. If she pulls ahead take that sharp left for 2-3 steps and swing back by calling her to heal and when she catches up stop. REPEAT.
Mary Beth and ausdland like this.
Malibu is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 10:52 AM
Crowned Member
 
Mary Beth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pierre, South Dakota
Posts: 5,129
Yes, try what Malibu suggests! That is a somewhat like I did with my Sting who also wore a front ring harness. But what I did was when he pulled was to walk into him and nudge his ribs with my knee- he was a big gsd, so that got his attention I would also suddenly zig zag . I would give Sting sniffing breaks and let the leash loose to the full length. To get his attention back to me I would shorten the leash. At the start this didn't work, so I would say in a happy voice "what a good nose you have! My, aren't you smart". That would break his focus and he would look at me and then we moved on. Since you are using a harness, you may want to take a look at the video on this site - it is the harness and walking method I used with Sting. You can use the walking method with any front ring harness: https://www.dogwalkinsync.com/
Alyssa & Olivia likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Royal K9s Baron Sting DB 7/9/2017


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sting Chance von Gaard 2006-2017
Mary Beth is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 10:55 AM
Junior Member
 
dave2336's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyssa & Olivia View Post
I've been working on Olivia's pulling for around 5 - 6 months now and I feel I have made little to no progress.


I've been doing various versions of the treat training but all she seems to do is eat the treat and pull even harder.

I've used normal collars but she has a tendency to slip out so I no longer walk her on them. (She is not a dog I can off leash walk)

I've used martingales but she ends up pulling so hard she chokes herself, even when loose.

I've used a head halter (?) and we both discovered it wasn't a good fit, despite treat training and conditioning.

We've tried the walking in different directions as well as stopping when she pulls.

I've tried having her stay at my side with a very short leash and I just ended up with a burn from the force of her pulling.


So right now we've just been using a harness with a front ring and that has worked decent. However she's gotten so big that she still manages to yank me around.


Are there any other methods I should be exploring?

She loves eating the treats but I can't get her to focus enough that she slows down. She knows the focus command and will do her tricks on walks but can't seem to slow down for whatever reason.

She slows down when sniffing things which she does whenever flowers are nearby (yes she sniffs flowers, no clue why.) When there is no plants to sniff she just trucks along.


All of these methods were tried for several weeks daily with consistency.

No prong or shock collar suggestions please, I know they work for some but I would rather not.


Any advice, other ways to treat train, etc?

Please be specific in each step you do, that way I don't miss anything that could help.

Thanks!
The rabbitgoo harness has worked wonders me.
Alyssa & Olivia likes this.
dave2336 is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 11:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Malibu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 422
Maybe a harness works great I don't know. I like a choker collar because moving up closer to the ears seems to get the dogs attention much better. Corrections seem to work without sound if you have a leash I feel anyway.
Alyssa & Olivia likes this.
Malibu is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 11:31 AM
Moderator
 
Fodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by car2ner View Post
To be fair, many of us use the treat as a release. When we ask for something like a "sit" once the treat is given the sit is released. Like a game of tug, the reward marks the end of the asked for behavior. If you want the behavior to continue you need to ask for it again. If you want to use rewards only you'll have to give your command, take a few good steps, reward, give your command and take a few more good steps, reward, repeat. It will work but you won't be taking any long walks for awhile. Not everyone has that kind of patience.
The treat only becomes a release if you train it this way. Dogs know what we teach them or allow. It’s not hard at all to build duration through food rewards. Using a tug as a release is a bit different - generally used at the end of an exercise or sequence...not a command where a dog needs to hold a position.
Malibu likes this.

TILDEN: Male: Blk/Red LHGSD: DOB: 12/24/06 65lbs of Love
KEYSTONE: Male: Sable: DOB: 2/11/13 55lbs of Go!!!!!
Fodder is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Alyssa & Olivia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau's Mom View Post
Olivia is the fear-aggressive pup you asked about in another thread, right? Is her pulling anxiety/fear-related, too? Or just no leash manners yet?
Yes that would be her!

No fearfulness on walks, just no manners yet
Alyssa & Olivia is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Alyssa & Olivia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by car2ner View Post
The only way to stop a behavior is to make it uncomfortable to do it. In your case it means no moving at all no matter how long it takes if the dog isn't in position. Although this technique works I personally found it took too long and was more frustrating for me than for my dog! The idea of turning around and walking the other way had it's limits as my dogs thought it was part of a game. It worked until there was a competing motivator, like a critter or another dog or a really interesting scent, that made it worth it to them to leash pressure me (tugging) to get to the thing that was more interesting than me.



Treats are to encourage a good behavior but you've seen the good behavior ends after the treat is eaten. To be fair, many of us use the treat as a release. When we ask for something like a "sit" once the treat is given the sit is released. Like a game of tug, the reward marks the end of the asked for behavior. If you want the behavior to continue you need to ask for it again. If you want to use rewards only you'll have to give your command, take a few good steps, reward, give your command and take a few more good steps, reward, repeat. It will work but you won't be taking any long walks for awhile. Not everyone has that kind of patience.

This is why we went with a prong collar. Yes, dogs can be trained without them but using the prong made the process faster and we could enjoy long walks together much sooner. No yank and crank with the prong, just a natural discomfort from pulling. If motivated enough, a dog will still pull wearing a prong. But they won't choke themselves like they will with a martingale or flat collar.

For sniffing plants, bushes and grass trap scent very well. Walks are be all about smelling everything. We look around, they sniff around. For a stubborn sniffer I give the collar a quick tug and a move along command. If my dog ignores me I walk into their head, pushing it aside from the smell with my lower leg...slowly but firmly. I then give the move along command and reward when they catch up with me. If they come with me right away even if they really really like the scent, I might praise them and let them return to the smell as the reward.

Also bring a toy! You have to be interesting during a walk. Imagine yourself walking with a human friend. If your friend doesn't say anything and is boring, how long will you pay attention to them before you start looking around or thinking about heading home? Same with your dog. If you are boring they'll start looking around for something more fun to do. You don't have to be a circus clown. Sometimes your dog has to behave "just because" but over all they should enjoy the process of being with you.
When we did do the stopping and going she just stopped and waited for me. Which was great until I praised her took a step and off she went.

I did to do short walks with constant praise every time she listened but it never seemed to keep her attention even when doing it every few seconds.

I'm not against prong collars but when I asked about them it seemed most agreed that it likely wouldn't be a good fit for my dog since she is fearful. I would rather explore more options before taking my chance with that, in case she does become more fearful or frustrated with it.

Perhaps I will bring a toy then. That isn't something I've tried so I will give that a shot!

Thanks!
Alyssa & Olivia is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
17mo old still pulling on walks Ziva Fl How do I (teach my dog to)? 2 05-15-2015 07:49 PM
How to stop leash pulling GSD Fan How do I (teach my dog to)? 14 09-20-2010 09:36 PM
My GSD is always pulling on the leash Panzercanuck Training Theory & Methods 20 07-23-2010 04:20 PM
Pulling on leash not good for rotator cuff injury! bethandglen General Puppy Stuff 2 03-19-2009 03:52 PM
Pulling on leash? Virginia How do I (teach my dog to)? 11 10-07-2008 10:30 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome