E collar on off leash hikes? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 18Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
GandalfTheShepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,424
E collar on off leash hikes?

Hi guys,
I know its too soon to be thinking about exercising Gandalf more after his health issues are just starting to improve but couldn't help myself... I have always loved taking my dogs to the nearby woods to just run off leash and play. On his good days I've taken Gandalf and its so amazing to see him running happy and free. He is very good with recalls in general, he stays by our side most the time and thank god when he does chase wildlife he always comes right back and never ever goes near the water (we have lots of gators here in Florida...). He will always run to the edge and then stop. One of my proudest moments with him was we saw a herd of deer just a couple feet away, I told him to come and he did even though I know every fiber in his being wanted the chase! However... we do have dirty nasty poop issues. He loves to eat animal poop. I haven't been taking him in the woods and letting him off leash because with all his digestive issues I really wanted to know EXACTLY what had been going into his system everyday and ruling out parasites and what not... He also likes to pretend hes a golden retriever, if we see another person or dog in the woods he runs right up to them and this freaks a lot of people out. It freaks me out too, a lot of those people walk their dogs back in the woods because they are aggressive dogs that can't handle the sidewalks with other people and dogs in the neighborhoods. Gandalf has a solid recall except in these certain circumstances. I think a lot of his recall issues will just come with maturity... we train a lot and hes been to plenty of obedience classes, in November hes taking his CGC test as long as he is in better health. I was thinking of maybe getting him an E collar for the off leash hikes in the woods, do you think this might be a useful tool for the issues we are having? Would an E collar be enough to keep him by my side when we see another dog or if he goes after some really fine smelling poop? I have also never used an E collar... how would I go about training here?
Thanks again
GandalfTheShepherd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 10:36 AM
Senior Member
 
islanddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 410
Sounds like you're getting excited and looking forward to Gandalf's better health. Yay to that!
And as to ecollars, doing your research months ahead of time, is a good thing.
First, I'd say, don't bother if you don't need. Personally, I like Larry Krohn's take on ecollars. He has tons of free youtube videos and a small book, but the gist of it, is train the dog first with reward based training, and only once your dog knows exactly what a command means, add the ecollar.
So I'm guessing you'll have no need of an ecollar for awhile anyway.
In the meantime, use a long-line for any iffy situations, so you always have control of your dog, even when giving him a little freedom.
Keep turning recalls into party time, excited party time, fun wow, favourite treat toy or game time. Use the long line to reel him in for failed recalls.
I use an ecollar for off-lead, and find it beats keeping a dog on a leash forever. The training phase was quick for my previous dogs (gsd's), but my current dog (free-range village dog) has been tricky (I still leash him up when he gets too much into chasing things, but his recalls are awesome).
Don't even think of getting a collar at a big box store.
That's it. You have so much time to do your research, ask away.

SONIC--Dominican Street Collie aka 100% Unknown Fibers
All of my other dogs were GSD's, sadly missed, moving forward

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
islanddog is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
Elite Member
 
GandalfTheShepherd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by islanddog View Post
Sounds like you're getting excited and looking forward to Gandalf's better health. Yay to that!
And as to ecollars, doing your research months ahead of time, is a good thing.
First, I'd say, don't bother if you don't need. Personally, I like Larry Krohn's take on ecollars. He has tons of free youtube videos and a small book, but the gist of it, is train the dog first with reward based training, and only once your dog knows exactly what a command means, add the ecollar.
So I'm guessing you'll have no need of an ecollar for awhile anyway.
In the meantime, use a long-line for any iffy situations, so you always have control of your dog, even when giving him a little freedom.
Keep turning recalls into party time, excited party time, fun wow, favourite treat toy or game time. Use the long line to reel him in for failed recalls.
I use an ecollar for off-lead, and find it beats keeping a dog on a leash forever. The training phase was quick for my previous dogs (gsd's), but my current dog (free-range village dog) has been tricky (I still leash him up when he gets too much into chasing things, but his recalls are awesome).
Don't even think of getting a collar at a big box store.
That's it. You have so much time to do your research, ask away.
That's right ever since he was 8 weeks we have been practicing recalls and when he comes its a huge party with treats and love. He really has a great recall 99% of the time. Its just those random times when there's another dog he thinks is friendly or if there's ! We don't have much of a yard so the woods is a great time for him to stretch his legs and really run and play ball and frisbee.... I can't imagine doing that on a long lead even hes too big and too fast and I want to just see him run free! What collars would you recommend? Do you give a verbal cue as well before you buzz? Do you then reward when they look back at you?
GandalfTheShepherd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
islanddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 410
Not a trainer, so keep in mind my answers are conversational only, not a how to.

I use a mini-educator, and that's because I want one with very low levels (levels so low they can be felt at a comfortable range, a tingle, massage, sensation) but will go high (in case of needing to stop a blown recall mid-chase).

Basically, start out under low distraction with the lowest level the dog responds to (google finding working level on an ecollar).
Then, with a long line, use that level, and tap the button and turn (Larry Krohn & others explain better) to 'condition' the dog to the collar. The dog should be comfortable and not stressed by this training, the dog should just be learning that his behaviour controls the collar (he needs to learn he can turn it off by doing something). Call your dog, have a fun party.

Once your dog gets that lesson, you can tap a split second before or at the same time of a command, (remember, if the level is really low, it's a signal, not a punishment), and then move to no e-collar tap unless there is no compliance.

I hear you about long-lines being crap compared to off-leash, I agree (and my slightly mangled left hand is a reminder--fast dog (mine's only 40lbs) + long line + a moments inattention--equalled tendon damage), but you will always be juggling safety with freedom. Part of owning a dog. And you just make your decisions according the environment, your dog, and changing situations.

I still, and will always leash my dog under some circumstances even in places where I mostly run him off-lead.

Also, when you are playing with your dog (ball, frisbee) you can avoid the need to correct your dog by using engagement (playing with, fun training, mutual fun) to keep your dog with you, and making sure you spot 'distractions' before your dog does. When a 'distraction' appears, call, leash, and reward your dog before your dog realizes something is on the horizon. Make sure you have some fun games to play while on lead. I use this in places where I can see long distances (like an empty park) and I'm going to be active with my dog (play & train), but in the woods when I let him do 'dog stuff' things are different and I want the ecollar for back up.

SONIC--Dominican Street Collie aka 100% Unknown Fibers
All of my other dogs were GSD's, sadly missed, moving forward

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
islanddog is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 11:58 AM
Moderator
 
dogma13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: michigan
Posts: 5,548
I like the e collar technology mini educator also.My dogs like to roll in nasty things when we're out on off leash hikes and reinforcing the 'leave it' a few times with a low level stim has proved 100% effective.The basic premise is disobedience is uncomfortable but compliance is hugely rewarded.This article gives a good overview.
K9Handler.com/E-Collar Basics - K9Handler.com/

Terri

Samson Blk/Slvr GSD. RN
Misty Husky Mix
Z-Z Terrier/potato mix
Devo Yorkie Mix at the bridge
Dakota Wht GSD at the bridge
dogma13 is online now  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 12:07 PM
Elite Member
 
cloudpump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lyons NY
Posts: 1,902
Food for thought. Using an ecollar wrong can cause issues. I've seen it ramp a dog up and cause a fight.
dogma13 likes this.

Snitches get stitches.
cloudpump is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 12:24 PM
Senior Member
 
islanddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogma13 View Post
I like the e collar technology mini educator also.My dogs like to roll in nasty things when we're out on off leash hikes and reinforcing the 'leave it' a few times with a low level stim has proved 100% effective.The basic premise is disobedience is uncomfortable but compliance is hugely rewarded.This article gives a good overview.
K9Handler.com/E-Collar Basics - K9Handler.com/
That is a very thorough article. I so much wish I'd had this when I was starting out. I highly recommend printing it out to read, using a highlighter, re-reading. It really is thorough.

SONIC--Dominican Street Collie aka 100% Unknown Fibers
All of my other dogs were GSD's, sadly missed, moving forward

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
islanddog is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 12:35 PM
Senior Member
 
islanddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
Food for thought. Using an ecollar wrong can cause issues. I've seen it ramp a dog up and cause a fight.
A worthy warning--this would be the case if it's used as a punisher. Dog runs towards dog, blows off recall, gets to the other dog, owner panics and hits the button, dog ignores, owner turns up the ecollar, dog freaks and attacks the nearest thing which happens to be the dog he was greeting<---absolutely do not do this and avoid circumstances where this might happen.

It needs to be used as a part of training, not a last resort surprise punisher.

Any other ways this thing could go terribly wrong? OP is asking before doing, so there is plenty of time to think, question, run through scenarios.
Chip18 likes this.

SONIC--Dominican Street Collie aka 100% Unknown Fibers
All of my other dogs were GSD's, sadly missed, moving forward

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
islanddog is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 01:26 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfy dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 9,466
I only use the E collar to prevent wildlife chases, never for other issues like other dogs or eating 'stuff'. BTW: running to the edge of the water? Aren't gators fast enough to grab a dog like that? I have seen videos of crocs snatching animals near the water. How about pythons and all the other creepy non-native species in your state?
wolfy dog is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 10-11-2017, 01:52 PM
Moderator
 
dogma13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: michigan
Posts: 5,548
Yes it can go wrong if the dog gets the impression that the other dog is causing him discomfort.In other words,that the stim is coming from the environment or object.Like island dog said,using it to proof known commands before venturing out is important.
Chip18 likes this.

Terri

Samson Blk/Slvr GSD. RN
Misty Husky Mix
Z-Z Terrier/potato mix
Devo Yorkie Mix at the bridge
Dakota Wht GSD at the bridge
dogma13 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome