Structured walk - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-14-2017, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Structured walk

Hello,

My dog is fairly decent when it comes to loose leash walking without dog distractions. I have been using this method of walking her with the prong collar:

My question is that, is this method of structured walk effective in the long run or is it just a band-aid for a small problem? Will I be able to phase out the prong collar in the future?

I have tried incorporating positive reinforcement (food rewards when she is behind my left heel) but she just gets amped up and pulls slightly ahead.
If there are other training methods for structured walks, it would be gladly appreciated.
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post #2 of 81 (permalink) Old 08-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gmartinez3 View Post
Hello,

My dog is fairly decent when it comes to loose leash walking without dog distractions. I have been using this method of walking her with the prong collar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_WmkYBHE4o

My question is that, is this method of structured walk effective in the long run or is it just a band-aid for a small problem? Will I be able to phase out the prong collar in the future?

I have tried incorporating positive reinforcement (food rewards when she is behind my left heel) but she just gets amped up and pulls slightly ahead.
If there are other training methods for structured walks, it would be gladly appreciated.
Uhm....depends of what the problem is? Whatever the problem is engagement is the key to success to everything. The transition from prong collar to a flat collar...yes is possible

You can watch videos of Tyler Muto he's awesome, also Dream Come True K9 (Blake Rodriguez) has some pretty sweet videos out there.


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post #3 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 08:40 PM
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Not a fan of his approach. He is using corrections and leash pressure to train initial behaviors. Yes, it will work, but the dog's drive is going to be suppressed and he could have a negative emotional association with the commands and pressure work. He looks like a pure escape/avoidance trainer.
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post #4 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-15-2017, 12:38 PM
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I don't like the way he gives corrections while just standing there with the dog during his endless explanations. Also the dog doesn't have room to walk due to the short leash. Too many mild corrections that probably irritate the dog;licking and looking.
I like to give the dog the option by a longer leash and the command heel (once learned) and let the dog decide what to do. He corrects before the command. Didn't watch the rest of the video.
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post #5 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-15-2017, 06:22 PM
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There's a purpose to walking a dog this way. Its not about teaching happy heeling or having him in drive. Its more of an overall control, he mentioned something about it.
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post #6 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-15-2017, 07:24 PM
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There's a purpose to walking a dog this way. Its not about teaching happy heeling or having him in drive. Its more of an overall control, he mentioned something about it.
If you give the leash 2 feet and in combination with the prong, you should have enough control I would think? And in addition the handler being vigilant about what the dog is doing/seeing.
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post #7 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-15-2017, 08:13 PM
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He did say ... he just got the dog. I give people props for showing their work, that i is how people learn these days! I should have did a clip of my very first use of a SLL, with my very first rescue and they said to me ... "be careful this dog pulls!" LOL yeah right ... the first thing I noticed was the little tab thing?? I positioned it high and snug and ...waited! The dog struggled for a bit like WTH??? Stopped after a bit waited ... I said "Nothing!" And then the dog sat down!! I looked down and said "OK" and off we went! It was a great day ... and he walked as well on leash (with lots of slack, if that's that important) as my own Struddell (White Boxer) who a little old lady in a walke could walk with zero issues! But yeah had I actually had the foresight to do a clip ... pretty sure "most would have seen "nothing" happening??? Still ... although "Tic Tac Toe" (Boxer) walked fine for me ... when I handed him off at the end of the day ... there he goes again, off in the distance dragging his handler behind him!

And he was not my first claimed puller ... Deer Dog was even more spectacular ... makeshift SLL and that was one ... freaking epic!!! They'd just chased him down across town from chasing Deer!!

That was epic, even I was stunned! But ... chip specific rules so I can't post.

Still when I went back to see the owners there he was again 'pulling away on walks???" I just don't seem to be able to transfer what I do to others??? But moving on for ... trainers that do show their work and can "explain to others.

A couple links:

I've only had two dogs ... where I felt a "Prong Collar" could have produced quicker results ( a huge headed (Breed that shall not be mentioned) and a Boxer/APBT (she was a plopper downer???) But it's all relative ... those have been the only tow dogs that I could not to get walk well on leash inside of five minutes??? The other ten or so despite the claimed issues were a piece of cake ... although, yeah the dogs owners still not could walk them?? I seem to just suck at the transfer what I do to others thing ... that's a skill I have not learned thus far???
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post #8 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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If you give the leash 2 feet and in combination with the prong, you should have enough control I would think? And in addition the handler being vigilant about what the dog is doing/seeing.
You're losing me, that's what I see him doing. Its not so much about physical control, like restraint. The 2' of leash is more for timing and a beginning perception in the dogs mind, not about physically holding him there. Its creating that mind set of following your direction.

Doc

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post #9 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-16-2017, 01:21 PM
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What I see is that he has not given the dog one foot of leather even. Then when he lets go of the leash the dog immediately leaves him (because the dog hasn't been trained yet?) I have given Deja that option but she continues to walk next to me, no matter how long the leash is. I test them by giving them more leash and when they take advantage, correction. Not with puppies though. Or am I not understanding this correctly? I still don't like the looks of it.
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post #10 of 81 (permalink) Old 09-16-2017, 02:25 PM
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I start pet walk dogs like this. I have a specific start cue and ending cue so the dog knows exactly when he is expected to hold the position and when it he is done and is free to leave. If you want more pep to it you can reward on progressively longer stretches of dog holding the correct position, but for an ordinary pet where you just want a calm walk you do a lot less rewarding. The reward frequency has more to do with the level of drive you want out of them during the behavior and less to do with driving the actual behavior itself as the negative reinforcement takes care of that. The dog doesn't know the behavior it is simply responding to his input.

At some point as the dog becomes better at the behavior and understands the position I start to fade little help corrections and they start to become harder corrections for screwing up or non compliance. This will be what eventually fades the need for the constant needing to do little input corrections. If you always operate a loose leash except when the dog is doing something you want to change especially if you start them like that from a puppy you can do it on flat collars or slip collars from the get go and never have to worry about prongs or anything like that. Using proper pressure and release techniques like that a dog will never learn to pull if you are consistent and it never becomes a big issue. If you don't reward pulling or always tight line a dog and take away all incentive to yield to leash pressure dogs just give into the leash easily.
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You will walk when it is time to walk
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