toy release inconsistent - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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toy release inconsistent

Deja was good at releasing the toy after fetch until lately. It has become intermittent. Sometimes she holds on to it.it can be in the beginning of the session or later. I have tried waiting her out, staring in her eyes, folding her lips inside, offering a treat. Nothing works when she insistent to holding onto it. I have run out of ideas and don't want to fight her. I briefly thought about using the e-collar but I think she will learn to release it only as long as I have the control with me. Ideas? Other than that she is the picture of obedience.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 09:25 PM
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Do you immediately release her back onto the toy as a reward when she outs? My female is a snapping turtle with a toy but the initial grab/bite is more rewarding than actually having possession of it so she will out in a hurry if she gets to bite again immediately.

I have used an e collar to out her prior to above method. It works. It would work fine if you do your collar conditioning so she can't associate wearing the collar and you holding the remote.

My girl holds on tighter if you do anything confrontational to make her release, the stuff you said about staring in the eyes and folding lips. She relishes the fight. Not with the e collar.

Her other thing is that I have hever allowed play with "drive" toys indoors so if I haul her into the house she will out so if I follow through promptly and she knows I mean business
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
Do you immediately release her back onto the toy as a reward when she outs? My female is a snapping turtle with a toy but the initial grab/bite is more rewarding than actually having possession of it so she will out in a hurry if she gets to bite again immediately.

It is not a problem with tug. If she releases after fetch, we play again. She releases well when she is in a down and I tell her "OUT!"

I have used an e collar to out her prior to above method. It works. It would work fine if you do your collar conditioning so she can't associate wearing the collar and you holding the remote.

I critter trained her with the E-collar with good results. She never got collar-smart so that I will try after her wearing it and me holding the control for a few times before using it. I also will have her wear the E collar at random times from now on until this thing is over.


My girl holds on tighter if you do anything confrontational to make her release, the stuff you said about staring in the eyes and folding lips. She relishes the fight. Not with the e collar.

True, I will stop that. And will start to immediately leave her alone outside with her toy. I had forgotten about that technique which worked after one try with a Whippet in the past. And from then on he always released.


Her other thing is that I have hever allowed play with "drive" toys indoors so if I haul her into the house she will out so if I follow through promptly and she knows I mean business
She never has toys inside. When we go inside and she has the toy (with permission) she easily releases it, actually waits for me to tell her.

Last edited by wolfy dog; 11-19-2016 at 10:14 PM.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 10:24 PM
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So you could solve this without the e collar if you wanted, tell her out and if she doesn't immediately take her into house as promptly as possible. Probably have a drag line on her to start. Once she knows you are serious she mmight out it before you get all the way in in which case you give it right back or give her another equivalent toy off your person the instant she outs.

What is it that she won't give up, a ball? Also mine will out a ball on a rope easier than a plain ball

Also I should say that my dog knew how to turn collar pressure off with her actions before I used it for this. Does Deja know that?
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 10:38 PM
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Is she in an excited state when she doesn't want to release. Sometimes Rosko will not release when he gets back to me. Rather he wants to keep the prize he just ran after. Usually when this happens he has a look to him. If I tell him sit and give him a couple pets while calmly saying calm to him he will then release on my release command. If he still acts like he's not interested in releasing I can say leave it and he will drop it. If I have to go that route we're done playing with that toy.
Coincidentally I have seen him and my son playing ball and he doesn't want to release and my son simply grabs him by his top jaw and pulls up while holding the ball saying Rosko release in his manliest 13 yr old voice and Rosko releases every time.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 10:53 PM
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You could also go back to trading for another toy,like you probably did when he was a puppy.Temporarily,just to recondition the automatic out.When they're excited it is hard for them to unclench their jaws and release the prize.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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It is worse with balls, either on a rope or not. It seems like the ones she can squish are the worst. Can't wait till tomorrow. The plan is using a solid rubber ball she cannot squish; when she doesn't release I am letting her have the toy and go inside by myself, leaving her there with her prize. If she doesn't seem to care about that (I will watch her unseen to her), I will return and take her inside, toy and all, no more commands or talk. No further consequence other than ignoring her for a while. Next time it is immediately going back inside. I don't need a drag line as I can always get a hold of her. If that doesn't work, then I will use the Ecollar.
It is much easier to outsmart someone else's dog than your own. Thanks every one.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 10:36 AM
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One other thing that has worked for mine: she wants to lay down with it. So I will force her to sit and just hold the rope (ball on rope), this gets old for her and she will out.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Results first session. (I had attached a short tag on her collar so I didn't have to grab her by the collar in case she wouldn't release):
Used the most valuable ball(squishable one) to start and to challenge her. First release was perfect as she wasn't too hyper yet. Second no release so I immediately took her inside (calmly and quiet), took the ball and put her on a down stay for 3 minutes. Tried again with same ball: perfect release. Then worked with a solid rubber one on a rope: perfect releases. Went back to the valuable ball: prefect releases. Gave her another one to have and to end the session: perfect release before going back inside where she voluntarily stood to release the ball. Successful with just one time-out. So will try this several times more to see if it stuck. For now, I was smarter than she was. Yeah!!!! I out-did my GSD!!
Thank you for objectively thinking with me.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy dog View Post
Deja was good at releasing the toy after fetch until lately. It has become intermittent. Sometimes she holds on to it.it can be in the beginning of the session or later. I have tried waiting her out, staring in her eyes, folding her lips inside, offering a treat. Nothing works when she insistent to holding onto it. I have run out of ideas and don't want to fight her. I briefly thought about using the e-collar but I think she will learn to release it only as long as I have the control with me. Ideas? Other than that she is the picture of obedience.
Do you have a second toy? Or ever use a second toy?

She needs to learn how to play the game correctly, and you need to learn how to make her out motivationally. Some dogs are high prey and possessive of their toy and are stubborn or reluctant to out. I'd use a second toy and vary your routine. IME, going to compulsion often makes this worse. Especially, if you don't use enough force to really stop the behavior for good.

“Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance”. George Bernard Shaw

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