Teaching a 70lb shiloh to walk on a leash - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2016, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Teaching a 70lb shiloh to walk on a leash

Hello, so my sweet girl is 7mo old and 70lbs and I failed her as a puppy to teach her leash etiquette. I bought her in the winter then i had to have surgery...long story. Anyhow through no fault of her own she never learned how to walk on a leash and now im trying to. Buuut im having issues.

Her size and strength are an issue. But also the many distractions. I did feel that i was able to provide her with plenty of socialization as a puppy, but apparently not. Im having trouble getting her to focus on me while out walking, which leads her to pull every which way. And im having little trouble restraining her. She currently has a choke collar on but that does nothing! I think its mostly because she has ALOT of hair which pads it.

So what steps should I take to help with keeping her attention on me and keep her from pulling and helping me restrain her if she does.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2016, 10:14 PM
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I can well understand and my Sting is 126 lbs. and outweighs me I did try the choke chain which I had always used before with my previous dogs, but he with a big lunge just pulled it out of my hand. I have to admit that he did walk nicely until he saw something to chase. My neighbor whose lab cross is also a lunger and puller uses a harness. Then I saw a lady walkng a large golden retriever with this nifty red front ring harness that allowed the dog to move freely and didn't tighten. He was walking so nicely by her side. So I researched them. There are several front ring harnesses, but I decided on the Walk in Sync harness developed by Colorado trainer Alecia Evans. It comes with acess to free training videos to download. I've been using it for over 5 years now and it has really made a difference and the walks a joy. This is the website: https://dogwalkinsync.com/

And don't worry that you're training your adult dog, no matter what tool ( type of collar, harness, head halter) you decide to use it can be done. I adopted my husky when she was 2 years-old and has always been let to run loose. She did learn to walk nicely on a leash. I think the older dogs retain better and don't forget like the younger dogs do. So, good luck


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-10-2016, 11:21 AM
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A couple of things ... size of the dog or size of the person does not matter if a dog is "trained" to walk properly on a loose leash. And an "Assumption" my part ... when you "Correct" your dog .. it's a slight tug "SIDEWAYS" not "STRAIGHT BACK" for a proper leash correction ... if you try and out muscle your dog ... your going to be like this guy. :



And I doubt anyone is gonna out "muscle" this guy with a leash??


But a slight tug "Sideways" would stop even him cold!

So that said start over ... the first clip here is the "basics" of getting it right:

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Flat leash and a regular collar.

If you get that right ... you should be good to go, if you need a bit more help than that there is also a "Prong" (not my thing) or a Slip Lead Leash, principle for "Corrections" is still the same ..."slight tug sideways" but it's more of a wrist flick with a "Prong" ... details are here for using a SLL:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And most likely other dogs are a distractions?? That's covered here:
Teach your Dog to ignore other dogs. - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums


And finally "Place and Sit on the Dog" train calmness into a dog, every dog should know "Place" and that and "Sit on the Dog" help build a "Pattern" of your dog "listening to You."

Get that done and corrections should be a "none issue" a "Slight Tug" and a "NO" should be all it takes. Not to "Dismiss" others but this is how I do it.


Note I'd loose the Choke Chain a regular collar will work just fine, if your "Technique" is sound. As always welcome aboard and ask questions.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
A couple of things ... size of the dog or size of the person does not matter if a dog is "trained" to walk properly on a loose leash. And an "Assumption" my part ... when you "Correct" your dog .. it's a slight tug "SIDEWAYS" not "STRAIGHT BACK" for a proper leash correction ... if you try and out muscle your dog ... your going to be like this guy. :



And I doubt anyone is gonna out "muscle" this guy with a leash??


But a slight tug "Sideways" would stop even him cold!

So that said start over ... the first clip here is the "basics" of getting it right:

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/5296377-post8.html

Flat leash and a regular collar.

If you get that right ... you should be good to go, if you need a bit more help than that there is also a "Prong" (not my thing) or a Slip Lead Leash, principle for "Corrections" is still the same ..."slight tug sideways" but it's more of a wrist flick with a "Prong" ... details are here for using a SLL:

Slip Lead leash - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums

And most likely other dogs are a distractions?? That's covered here:
Teach your Dog to ignore other dogs. - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums


And finally "Place and Sit on the Dog" train calmness into a dog, every dog should know "Place" and that and "Sit on the Dog" help build a "Pattern" of your dog "listening to You."

Get that done and corrections should be a "none issue" a "Slight Tug" and a "NO" should be all it takes. Not to "Dismiss" others but this is how I do it.


Note I'd loose the Choke Chain a regular collar will work just fine, if your "Technique" is sound. As always welcome aboard and ask questions.
Alot of great info there so im going ti try to hit it all.
Im still in the process of reading alk the forums you directed me to but ive learned some good stuff from the videos ibhave watched.

First: we have sit, lay down, stay and place done and good. "Place' is actually crate and she goes into her kennel. When i say good, shes good when shes focusing on me. When shes out on a walk thats all out the door so thats just a matter of slowly expisinf her while still reinforcing the command.

Im a mixture of back and side pulling. If shes pulling ahead i pull back, if shes pulling to the side, i pull to the side. So thats an easy correction.

I saw that first video before but i forgot about the "cancelling the walk" part.

But whats the different between a slip lead and a choke chain? They seem to hold the same principle.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 03:39 AM
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Ok .. you need to slow down a bit.

Folks always seem to come up with "creative" spins on "Place" that I never anticipate?? Crate is not "Place" your going to confuse your dog and you
will lose the whole benefit of "Training" Place. And the goal of a "properly trained "Place Command" is at least two hours.

In the real world ... if you have a dog that understands a properly trained "Place Command," you can point at a spot and say "Place." The dog won't move from that spot until you release him. That is how it works. If your using "Crate as Place" you can't do that ... if there is no "Crate???" Your dog will have no idea what your talking about??? For train Crate I'd suggest per JG ... "Kennel Up"

You can work on "Place" indoors, use throw rugs around the house. Guide the dog into position with a drag leash if need be (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture) or you can use a real leash but don't leave it on him indoors if your not training. Tell the dog "Place" let him stay for a few minuets guide or point to another throw rug and say "Place." Build up time two hours in one spot is the "GOAL."

In the real world you could take your dog over to a friends house, throw a mat on the ground and say "Place." The dog stays there "regardless of distractions" until you release him. The dog understands, he needs to chill because he is going to be here for awhile.

And ... yes "Place" seems to cause a lot of confusion that I don't understand myself?? But a part of it is because it "looks" similar and functions "similar to a "Stay." I heard Jeff Gellman say "he no longer teaches "Stay" because "Place" serves the same function.

I suppose, ... I tend to disagree. I train both to me "Stay " means don't move! If I said "Stay"my Struddell (White Boxer) would freeze like a statue! I don't expect her to remain like that for two hours! With "Place" a dog is free to move about that "Spot" he just can't leave it. So there is a difference as I see it.

And the "Down" thing ... the command is "Down" one word not two, it's a subtle difference but "Down" once properly taught is also an emergency command, it can stop forward motion "Now!" It's pretty hard to get "Lay Down" out if you find yourself in a "Crap Happens" situation, the one second difference between "Lay Down" and "Down" ... could cost you your dog ... so change that to one word "Down."

The Choke Chain and the SLL ... hmm never thought about it?? I suppose one could view a SLL as a large version of a Choke Chain??? If used improperly they both can casue damage. The primary difference (besides size and material, is that an "actual, SLL has the little tab thing that positions the SLL sung and high. If your working with a dog that is not used to walking properly ... that postion of the SLL (high and snug) tells them hmm something is different here???

I've found that most dogs get with the program right quick! Usually less than 4 minutes. I did have one "Pitty" that did not much care for the SLL ... he was not a 4 minute "doggy" nor was he one you'd want to yank on! He did the whole sit and won't move and then got over that and did the rear up on the hind legs thing! Sigh .. I waited him out and got on with the program a first time experiance for me. Having a dog put up that much of a fight.

Usually they struggle a bit .. get nowhere with that and then sit and look at me for directions and then I say ... "OK" ... let's go. And with a real SLL you'll find that it will fall down, the tab doesn't really stay keep it snug but ... it really does not matter, once you've made your initial point. But if on your walk you see, what may or may not be an issue?? You stop reposition t,he SLL so that is snug again and your ready for a slight tug sideways if needed.

And the straight back thing?? Yeah unless your training an "attack dog???" That's always going to be a lose! It's still a"slight tug sideways" and if the dog goes over the top ... you've lost, turn around and walk away or change your intended direction and try again or don't. You need to "communicate" with the dog before he goes over threshold if he's over the top you've lost that round. And it is a slight tug just enough to move him sideways and let him know "your still there." And yes if the dog goes sideways then yes you go sideways in the opposite direction. The goal however is to catch the dog before that happens


Did I get everything??
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Ok .. you need to slow down a bit.

Folks always seem to come up with "creative" spins on "Place" that I never anticipate?? Crate is not "Place" your going to confuse your dog and you
will lose the whole benefit of "Training" Place. And the goal of a "properly trained "Place Command" is at least two hours.

In the real world ... if you have a dog that understands a properly trained "Place Command," you can point at a spot and say "Place." The dog won't move from that spot until you release him. That is how it works. If your using "Crate as Place" you can't do that ... if there is no "Crate???" Your dog will have no idea what your talking about??? For train Crate I'd suggest per JG ... "Kennel Up"

You can work on "Place" indoors, use throw rugs around the house. Guide the dog into position with a drag leash if need be (a short leash with no handle to get caught up on furniture) or you can use a real leash but don't leave it on him indoors if your not training. Tell the dog "Place" let him stay for a few minuets guide or point to another throw rug and say "Place." Build up time two hours in one spot is the "GOAL."

In the real world you could take your dog over to a friends house, throw a mat on the ground and say "Place." The dog stays there "regardless of distractions" until you release him. The dog understands, he needs to chill because he is going to be here for awhile.

And ... yes "Place" seems to cause a lot of confusion that I don't understand myself?? But a part of it is because it "looks" similar and functions "similar to a "Stay." I heard Jeff Gellman say "he no longer teaches "Stay" because "Place" serves the same function.

I suppose, ... I tend to disagree. I train both to me "Stay " means don't move! If I said "Stay"my Struddell (White Boxer) would freeze like a statue! I don't expect her to remain like that for two hours! With "Place" a dog is free to move about that "Spot" he just can't leave it. So there is a difference as I see it.

And the "Down" thing ... the command is "Down" one word not two, it's a subtle difference but "Down" once properly taught is also an emergency command, it can stop forward motion "Now!" It's pretty hard to get "Lay Down" out if you find yourself in a "Crap Happens" situation, the one second difference between "Lay Down" and "Down" ... could cost you your dog ... so change that to one word "Down."

The Choke Chain and the SLL ... hmm never thought about it?? I suppose one could view a SLL as a large version of a Choke Chain??? If used improperly they both can casue damage. The primary difference (besides size and material, is that an "actual, SLL has the little tab thing that positions the SLL sung and high. If your working with a dog that is not used to walking properly ... that postion of the SLL (high and snug) tells them hmm something is different here???

I've found that most dogs get with the program right quick! Usually less than 4 minutes. I did have one "Pitty" that did not much care for the SLL ... he was not a 4 minute "doggy" nor was he one you'd want to yank on! He did the whole sit and won't move and then got over that and did the rear up on the hind legs thing! Sigh .. I waited him out and got on with the program a first time experiance for me. Having a dog put up that much of a fight.

Usually they struggle a bit .. get nowhere with that and then sit and look at me for directions and then I say ... "OK" ... let's go. And with a real SLL you'll find that it will fall down, the tab doesn't really stay keep it snug but ... it really does not matter, once you've made your initial point. But if on your walk you see, what may or may not be an issue?? You stop reposition t,he SLL so that is snug again and your ready for a slight tug sideways if needed.

And the straight back thing?? Yeah unless your training an "attack dog???" That's always going to be a lose! It's still a"slight tug sideways" and if the dog goes over the top ... you've lost, turn around and walk away or change your intended direction and try again or don't. You need to "communicate" with the dog before he goes over threshold if he's over the top you've lost that round. And it is a slight tug just enough to move him sideways and let him know "your still there." And yes if the dog goes sideways then yes you go sideways in the opposite direction. The goal however is to catch the dog before that happens


Did I get everything??
Haha i believe you got everything. And i did misunerstand what they were intending with "place" so i can rework that. Ive never been able to get a dog to stay for much over a few mintues buts once again thats my fault as i get distracted too and move on to something different hahaha. But im going to try and retain everything thing here and get to work. As things arise ill be back!

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 10:42 AM
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Hello, I have Shilohs also! Not much to add to what others have already said, but Im happy to help if possible. Where is your pup from?

Vega, Shiloh Shepherd, b 1/12/15
Phoenixx, Shiloh shepherd, b 10/29/15
Gryphon, Shiloh Shepherd,b 3/9/14
Dasher, GSD, 9 years
RIP,Sasha
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 12:44 PM
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Yeah ... t end to post a lot of links.

But break it down ...

Start with this:


And I'll add ... When I started to have troubles with a "Prong Collar" used "incorrectly" with my "American Band Dawg." I went back to basics and that video clip is the first thing I was shown and did not do for a very long time, my bad. If you get that clip ... a SLL is not big deal.


And add this:

And as I said folks use "Stay" and "Go to Bed," interchangeably all the time ... for "Place. They are "not" the same ... use "Place" it works anywhere ... go to bed ... not so mch. Train "Place" and you create a "pattern" of having your dog "Listen" to you ... everything else becomes easier, when they do that.

"onyxena" .... Shilohs ... more than one??

Last edited by Chip18; 06-12-2016 at 12:48 PM.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by onyxena View Post
Hello, I have Shilohs also! Not much to add to what others have already said, but Im happy to help if possible. Where is your pup from?
Imladris shilohs in WV

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