Diarrhea for a month now. Help! - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Diarrhea for a month now. Help!

Hey guys! New GSD owner here. We have a 6 month old female that has had diarrhea for a month now. We got her tested after 2 days of it and she tested positive for worms. She went on 2 rounds of dewormer and then tested afterwards and it came back clean. However the diarrhea has not gone away. The vet gave us this enzymatic powder to try which worked for like 2 days and then the diarrhea returned with a vengeance. Instead of loose stool it is now water. So we put her on anti diarrhea meds until we could get her into the vet. With the anti diarrhea meds she still has very loose stool but at least it is not water! She was on blue diamond puppy chicken and rice before the worms with no problems. Then she went on real boiled chicken and rice with the dewormer, then the vet told us to try pedigree puppy life stages because he has seen gsd take to a high carb diet better. So we tried to faze her into that with the chicken and rice, no success. Then we put the enzymatic powder with the kibble and rice, no success. Now we are back to chicken and rice. We took her back to the vet today and demanded they draw blood, which they did but we are about to lose our minds here! No change in behavior or energy. She is hyper as always. She is underweight (she is 46lbs) but we rescued her from a home and she came to us skin and bones. But this literally happened overnight! She was fine one day and then diarrhea the next day and that has been the norm for a month this last friday. Any ideas?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:07 PM
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First of all, find another vet.
Pedigree is just about the worst food you can feed any dog, and, no, GSDs do not well on high carb diets! Not to mention, changing the kibble in the middle of an attack of intestinal inflammation is just wrong.
I would keep up the boiled chicken, and replace the rice with canned pure pumpkin, not the pie filling. All the carbs in the rice are causing more havoc on the poor dog’s colon.
You can also give her 2 capsules of apple pectin with her food. This helped us when nothing else would.
I feed Hans 3/4 pound of boiled ground beef, with a side of 4 oz pumpkin purťe, in which I mix 3/4 teaspoon of human grade bone meal, and 2 capsules of apple pectin. This is twice a day. (I do add organ meat, but you should not do that when she is pooping water.)
You can do the same with chicken. The apple pectin capsules and bone meal powder I use are made by Now, and available on Amazon.
If you must have her on kibble, it would be best to transition when her poops are firm with pumpkin and chicken, and I would go back to the kibble that didn’t give her problems.
Best of luck, and please update. I have sooooo been there with a GSD who has digestive issues.


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Norden von Narnia (Hans) DOB 1-15-12
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:30 PM
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Get a bag of chicken leg quarters. Now carefully follow these preparation directions for feeding. Take it of the bag and stick it in her mouth. <<<<

Repeat 6-7 hours later. Looking for about 3 -4 pounds per day over the next 4 days. This will almost always fix loose stools when there is no medical issue and some small medical issues. DO NOT COOK, DONT PLAY DEBONING Open mouth insert chicken chicken disappears.

No treats for a couple days no other food. This will get you back to baseline poop, I call it. The bone content should firm everything up quickly and from here you start introducing other foods watching that stool. Goes south again use this get back baseline. Dogs are made to raw food. Serious consider and research getting the dog back to what its designed to eat, whole food...Meat.

All those food changes don't help when the vets are drawing blanks from the tests they do. Get back to super simple while trying to figure out the root cause.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:47 PM
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wow 1 month is pretty extreme.
just throwing this out there but try this thing called Kochi Free
you can type that into amazon.

tis' supposed to get rid of worms and stuff.
i have personally tried it, along with medicataion from vet, when my dog had coccidia, and it worked.
i can't tell if it was the meds or the kochi free, or the combination of the two, but my dog was cleared.

i heard about kochi free from some of the members here.

kochi free, some probiotics, easy on the food, and yea 2nd opinion from another vet wouldn't hurt.

good luck
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Archris1987 View Post
She was fine one day and then diarrhea the next day and that has been the norm for a month this last friday. Any ideas?

Yes. I would re-run the fecal test at minimum and also test for giardia (it's rare to spot giardia in a fecal test--it usually needs to be sent out to a lab to identify it).



Watery diarrhea is often a parasite or microbial infection of some kind...so I'm suspicious that your dog had more than just worms previously. A round of Metrodinazole from the vet also probably would be worth thinking about -- ask the vet about whether that might help your dog's particular case.


If you're in the USA, Canada, Europe or anywhere else with access to IDEXX labs, I would consider asking the vet about ordering the IDEXX Canine RealPCR Diarrhea Panel. It tests for a long list of potential problems. It's been the key to solving mystery diarrhea in a few young dogs with perisistant diarrhea that I rescued.

The PCR test sometimes ends up being more bang for your buck than just testing for giardia, as it includes giardia plus so much more. It covers Campylobacter coli, Campylobacter jejuni, canine circovirus, canine distemper virus (CDV), canine enteric coronavirus (CECoV), canine parvovirus 2 (CPV-2), Clostridium difficile toxin A/B gene, Clostridium perfringens alpha toxin (CPA) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin (CPE) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens CPnetE/F toxin gene Quant, Cryptosporidium spp., Giardia spp., and Salmonella spp.

If your dog has an infection with one of these things, the dewormer may not fix it, and neither will food changes.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 08:19 PM
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Yes. I would re-run the fecal test at minimum and also test for giardia (it's rare to spot giardia in a fecal test--it usually needs to be sent out to a lab to identify it).

The PCR test sometimes ends up being more bang for your buck than just testing for giardia, as it includes giardia plus so much more. It covers Campylobacter coli, Campylobacter jejuni, canine circovirus, canine distemper virus (CDV), canine enteric coronavirus (CECoV), canine parvovirus 2 (CPV-2), Clostridium difficile toxin A/B gene, Clostridium perfringens alpha toxin (CPA) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin (CPE) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens CPnetE/F toxin gene Quant, Cryptosporidium spp., Giardia spp., and Salmonella spp.
I can't imagine a vet not testing for coccidia and giardia with a watery stool, but it was not listed. Im assuming they did. If the did not and suggested pedigree kibble to boot-- good lord get out of there. That IDEXX PCR test is cool one for the tool kit I have not seen that before. Guessing being a broad test its pretty pricey?

@Archris1987

Both coccidia and giardia have distinct odor. The later giardia will a clear a room full of people with just a small sampling. Very stenchy.. Any odor present?

JD

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Last edited by Seer; 04-22-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 09:06 PM
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Fecal test absolutely needs to be done.

BUT your vet is correct, I have had many multiple rescues who's tummies rebelled badly on better foods. Diarrhea in my house was generally treated by a fast and then a hard switch to Pedigree. Once we had the diarrhea under control and weight gain was steady we would experiment with different food. Everyone knocks Pedigree and I have issues with the company as well but it does work. One caution is that the feeding recommendations are way over the top, so start with small meals.
The other thing that I am curious about is what food you are feeding. If it's Blue switch now. Get your dog on anything else and the symptoms described are common on that food and especially with German Shepherds. Never had one that was ok with it, have had multiple cases of explosive, watery diarrhea on it.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:52 AM
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That IDEXX PCR test is cool one for the tool kit I have not seen that before. Guessing being a broad test its pretty pricey?
Yes and no -- meaning, yes it's a wallet hit, but no when you look at how much it tests for in one fell swoop. It's around $200.

Although I know that *sounds* expensive, here's why that's not really. Sending out a Giardia ELISA test is around $100 by itself -- since you can rarely spot it in giardia in a fecal test unless you get very lucky, that usually has to be done. If they're young and unvaxed, parvo testing would add another $50. We used to often end up running both of those for a young rescued dog with bad diarrhea, so we'd be in $150 for labs just for two items on the list. For $50 more, we get all that, plus far more information. It's also avoids having to keep coming back and pay another office visit charge over and over trying to figure it out with hit-and-miss guesses. It's not something I'd run on every dog, but when you've got one with a poor medical history, persistent diarrhea that dewormer can't fix, difficulty gaining weight...and young to boot...

We had a pair of GSD pups pulled out of a shelter after being dumped by their BYB that couldn't sell them and got tired of feeding them -- they just cycled on and off of terrible diarrhea, and nothing fixed it. Turned out they must have been around farm animals wherever they came from, because they ended up having corona, camphylo, and clostridium once we sent in the PCR test. That situation was an eye-opener for me, as it was the first time I encountered such a "GI infection cocktail" in any dog.

Another thought on dewormer -- OP, which dewormer did you use? (Do you remember the name?) As long as the dog doesn't have tapeworms, I prefer fenbendazole (Panacur) once a day for at least 5 days over just about anything else. In addition to deworming, it will also treat Giardia, if given for at least 5 days (but not if only given for 3 days). If you can go 7 days, that's even better for being sure to knock out Giardia, and you'll also knock out lungworms if you're in an area with them. It's safe, and fairly inexpensive in liquid form (more expensive as flavored granules), though the liquid requires a RX in the USA.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Magwart View Post
Yes. I would re-run the fecal test at minimum and also test for giardia (it's rare to spot giardia in a fecal test--it usually needs to be sent out to a lab to identify it).



Watery diarrhea is often a parasite or microbial infection of some kind...so I'm suspicious that your dog had more than just worms previously. A round of Metrodinazole from the vet also probably would be worth thinking about -- ask the vet about whether that might help your dog's particular case.


If you're in the USA, Canada, Europe or anywhere else with access to IDEXX labs, I would consider asking the vet about ordering the IDEXX Canine RealPCR Diarrhea Panel. It tests for a long list of potential problems. It's been the key to solving mystery diarrhea in a few young dogs with perisistant diarrhea that I rescued.

The PCR test sometimes ends up being more bang for your buck than just testing for giardia, as it includes giardia plus so much more. It covers Campylobacter coli, Campylobacter jejuni, canine circovirus, canine distemper virus (CDV), canine enteric coronavirus (CECoV), canine parvovirus 2 (CPV-2), Clostridium difficile toxin A/B gene, Clostridium perfringens alpha toxin (CPA) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens enterotoxin (CPE) gene Quant, Clostridium perfringens CPnetE/F toxin gene Quant, Cryptosporidium spp., Giardia spp., and Salmonella spp.

If your dog has an infection with one of these things, the dewormer may not fix it, and neither will food changes.
Totally spot on.

I had a five month old puppy years ago with the same kind of intractable diarrhea. The vet did put him on metro right away with no result. Nothing was working.

He would fool us and have a round of normal poops, get our hopes up, then go back to the diarrhea.

He tested negative for giardia, which was my first guess. Finally, one of the techs got suspicious and wanted him tested for cryptosporidia, of all the crazy things.

Sure enough, that was it.

The vet clinic didnít keep the meds for crypto on hand, so I had to go to Walgreens. They had to special order it.

The cost: $150 for five pills.

Oh, what the hey. I had already spent $5000+ on heart surgery to close my babyís PDA. Whatís another $150?

My little goofball was fine after that. How he got crypto, Iíll never know.

I, too, give side eye to this vet. Isnít the protocol for puppies with diarrhea to be treated as parvo until proven otherwise?

And an absolute hard no on the Pedigree. Thatís just nuts.

OP, please find a new vet and do the panel.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 12:44 PM
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I get really tired of the food snobs and blatant disregard for EXPERIENCE on this board.
I have been working with rescues, byb dogs and mill pups for almost 3 decades now, a couple of the vets I dealt with had almost twice that in rescue.

Keep your dogs on whatever you like and definitely promote healthy food when possible but don't slam a vet for something that they obviously KNOW.
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