Help! Protein in Urine! - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 09:16 AM
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too much tinkering with the tinkling.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 09:44 AM
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light bulb just went on - just realized that this is the same concerned poster with the pH ACV thread .

answer is a bad , deficient diet , which needs to be over hauled .

maybe your best solution is the highest quality kibble with additional digestive enzymes and probiotics and a source
of essential fatty acids -- which are essential and don't survive manufacture of kibble

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 11:36 AM
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Hi Jakiap & WELCOME!

Was this diet made up by a nutritionist? Are you adding supplements?

If no, I believe you could be in for some problems health wise because the diet is not "Complete & Balanced". If nutrient values are not met, any number of things can creep up.

Here are some places to check out that can help you to balance his diet correctly:

Balance IT or Monica Segal or The Ottawa Valley Dog Whisperer or Whole Dog Journal (https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/is...n_20568-1.html) and others.

Have you ever considered consulting with a holistic vet who specializes in Homeopathy? There are remedies that could benefit your dog.

I am using a combination of glandular's, supplements and homeopathic's for our male.

Here are some holistic articles that may interest you.

https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/1...ease-treatment

Natural Options For Kidney Disease & Failure
Moms
Hey Moms, thanks for the welcome : )

Nope. It was my Vet who recommended it. I cross-checked it with the other Vet, he agreed with it.

The thing here is none of the vets think there is a renal problem. It's just my fear/suspicion due to the protein in urine. And the increased creatinine(though in the normal range).

He is 31kgs, I feed him 250gms of boneless chicken, which is around 70gms of protein. From what @thegooseman90 says, he should be eating 31 x 2 = 62gms/day. Other than the meat, he gets rice, vegetables, curd/yogurt, fruits, eggs in rotation which add to another 10gms. So, he gets around 80gms/day? Does that warrant 1+ protein leak in urine in a 40C summer heat? THAT I want to know.
(Also, it's 250gms raw, once cooked might become 200gms? Which makes it 60gms protein? So that makes it 70-75 gm/day. Does that leak out? :/)

Another point to mention, it's been a month or less since shifting to feeding chicken daily, does that mean something? His body adjusting to it and hence, the leak?


@articles: Thank you. Have read them up. Though I'm confused about what greeny leafs to use? I run into some or other article contradicting use of almost every greeny leaf. So haven't given him any so far.
Planning to give cabbage though, that was the only one with least contradictions.

Yup, I give him pre,pro-biotics and enzymes powder.

@Homeo: I've given him Homeo for liver issues, now giving for his gastric problems. Effective. But my question is, is there a renal problem to give medication? lol... Or should I go the preventive way? Maybe a homeo immune booster would help?

@thegooseman90: Haha, I was worried about his bright yellow urine so measured the quantity *sheepish grin*.
@Fat: What to give? Any suggestions? I read up Cheddar cheese being good. But in his daily, regular diet, what works?
Please don't take offense when I say this but it's post like this that should make it obvious you shouldn't be feeding homemade yet. And I say this in the best interest of your dog. Chicken breast is 31 grams of protein per 100 grams so on the upper hand you're giving him 90 grams of protein in chicken alone. The other stuff you mention all has some protein in varying amounts and without knowing how much of each he gets there's no way to say exactly how much. Either way the vast majority of his calories is from protein right now. The bigger issue is that he's still young and growing and right now is a really bad time to experiment with diet. Do yourself and your dog a favor and switch him to a high quality kibble for large breed dogs. After you do that spend a lot of time learning how to feed a home made diet, a raw diet. There's no need to cook any of it. He won't get a tummy ache from raw chicken.

As for the questions about his urine protein, yes it's going to be elevated because the extra protein has to go somewhere. He only needs about 2 grams per kilo of weight - or to simplify 1 gram per pound is good enough. More so than just the protein in the urine the vets will look at the ratio of protein to creatine. And if your vets say there's no issue with his kidneys then I'd believe him. No reason not to. I feel confident in saying you'd see an improvement just by switching to a high quality kibble.
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 12:04 PM
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it isn't the amount of protein -- it is the lack of "other"

I have had generations of dogs fed raw from the (sires and dams) for the last 35 years and then some (interruptions because of moves and needing to find when raw was not as easy and accommodated).

I never weighed a gram of anything .

You can't be that precise on the needs because life throws you curveballs and you need to be responsive to what ever you are facing.

the dogs I have show dinosaur-dense bone on x ray , good orthopedics, and when I re-do orthopedics at 8 or 9 years there is no sign of inflammation or arthritis (which is as if not more important that the x ray results).

diarrhea I experience only vicariously throw poopy pictures and giving a hand to fix problems.

the dog is short changed .

if that anxious - get onto kibble and support with digestive aide.

Carmen

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 12:20 PM
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Jakiap Quote: "*sigh* Educate me, folks. Please. " - everyone here wants to help you, as we are concerned with your dogs health, so please don't take offense to our comments.

I agree with the others to put him back on kibble and the supplements mentioned by Carmspak for nutrition purposes.

When he is older......Research and then research more to come up with a complete and balanced diet.

I'm a raw feeder - But if you are uncomfortable with raw food here is what a Home Made Cooked diet looks like from WDJ.....BUT.....NOTE items in red.

Homemade Dog Food Recipe Ingredients:

8 ounces chicken thigh meat (cooked)
˝ ounces chicken liver (cooked)
1 large egg (hard-boiled)
4 ounces sweet potato (boiled)
2 ounces plain low-fat yogurt
1,000 mg fish oil
700 mg calcium (3/8 teaspoon ground eggshell, or any other form of plain calcium)
This recipe provides 700 kcal, 72.3 grams protein (15.8% as fed, 54.8% dry matter), 32.6 grams fat (7.1% as fed, 24.7% dry matter), 24.5 grams carbohydrates (5.4% as fed, 18.6% dry matter).

"Notes: This recipe is designed for the average 25-pound adult dog; homemade puppy food includes special requirements not addressed here. Dietary intake, proportions, and ingredients must be adjusted for your dog's weight, health condition, and activity level. The amounts can be increased proportionately for larger dogs, and decreased for smaller dogs, but keep in mind that large dogs require less food for their body weight than small dogs. (A 50-pound dog requires less than twice the amount needed for a 25-pound dog; use a little more than half the amounts for a 12-pound dog.) Observe your dog's weight and adjust the amount you feed as needed to keep him slim and trim.


This is not a nutritionally complete homemade dog food. It is good for occasional use, but like most homemade food for dogs, it requires supplementation and variety to fully meet a dog's nutritional requirements. For adult dogs, this recipe is short on some vitamins (B1, B12, choline, and vitamins D, E, and K) and minerals (copper, magnesium, manganese, zinc). A multivitamin and mineral supplement can help ensure that your dog's nutritional needs are met, though it's not a substitute for feeding a balanced diet with a lot of variety."


Moms
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Guys, guys,

First of all, No offence taken. Ignorance & search of answers led me here,so obviously, I'd like to learn than get offended.

Okay, now one thing I want to put it out there. I tried EVERY kibble available here. None suited him. Last thing I fed till March was ACANA. It is clear commercial kibble doesn't agree with my boy. Feeding it again is out of question. It has caused lot of distress to him.

I do give him Gutwell. I add solmon oil and Nutiva coconut oil alternately in his food everyday.

Even my Vet said, there'd be deficiency in nutrients with homemade diet. That is why I give him, Calcium-Phosphorus tablets and Beaphors Multi-Vitamin tablets. I give him Glycoflex as well.

But I don't want to depend on tablets. I'd rather have his nutrition with/in FOOD.

I forgot to mention I do feed him organ meat but that's only thrice a week because his tummy is still adjusting to food. Commercial kibble did cause a lot of damage to his tummy.

And, I'm researching and looking for recipes/acceptable foods/acceptable food combinations. My next topic was going to be seeking help in that direction actually lol... I was browsing this board and jotted down some recipes from different threads already...

If you guys do not mind, can you tell me what you feed/fed your dogs? I only ask for the homemade diets. Thank you in advance.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 08:20 AM
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I do give him Gutwell. I add solmon oil and Nutiva coconut oil alternately in his food everyday.

Calcium-Phosphorus tablets and Beaphors Multi-Vitamin tablets. I give him Glycoflex as well.

I do feed him organ meat but that's only thrice a week
These are things we did not know.

What country are you in?

Does the Beaphar tablets also contain calcium or phosphorus?
I'm asking b/c of the Cal/Phos (ratio's) tablets you are also feeding.

I could only find the ingredients for Bephar Multivitamin Paste (not tablets)

Ingredients:
oils and fats, milk and milk-derived products, vegetable products (Malt extract 3.7%, MOS 4650 mg/kg), yeast.
Analysis:
crude protein 16%, crude fat 52.2%, ash 4.3%, moisture 2.2%, calcium 0.6%, phosphorus 0.5%, sodium 0.4%, potassium 0.7%.

Additives: Vitamin B1 395mg, vitamin B2 115mg, Calcium pantothenate 595mg, nicotinamide 980mg, vitamin B6 195mg, vitamin B12 1450mg, folate 25mg, biotin 370mg, vitamin 130 IU, L-carnitine 448mg, chloride, antioxidants, colourants.


Do you have The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food available to you? It looks like oatmeal - it's NOT kibble. It is 100% human grade food - dehydrated meat and vegetables. It is the ONLY pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words "Human Food" on packaging and advertising. The employees at the company actually taste test each batch! It has helped MANY dogs on this blog.

Years ago when our male had protein in his urine, this is what our holistic vet suggested. It was the Honest Kitchen "Base Mix" to which you add your own meat (raw or cooked) and contains all of the vitamins, minerals and nutrients your dog would need.
There are also various complete recipe's that contains meat, veg & fruit (see LOVE below).

Honest Kitchen LOVE: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.


Honest Kitchen BASE MIXES to which you add your own raw or cooked meat. https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/base-mix


Sojo's and Grandma Lucy's make a similar product.


As for recipe's, I think you should consult an animal nutritionist to come up with a diet and make sure he is getting everything he needs.


Quote: "
But I don't want to depend on tablets. I'd rather have his nutrition with/in FOOD."
They are not eating a live "fresh kill". They are eating store bought "dead" meat/organs, that you are cooking, resulting in lost nutrient value from high temperatures.
So you do need to support raw diet's and home cooked diet's with supplements.


Moms


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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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These are things we did not know.

What country are you in?

Does the Beaphar tablets also contain calcium or phosphorus?
I'm asking b/c of the Cal/Phos (ratio's) tablets you are also feeding.

I could only find the ingredients for Bephar Multivitamin Paste (not tablets)

Ingredients:
oils and fats, milk and milk-derived products, vegetable products (Malt extract 3.7%, MOS 4650 mg/kg), yeast.
Analysis:
crude protein 16%, crude fat 52.2%, ash 4.3%, moisture 2.2%, calcium 0.6%, phosphorus 0.5%, sodium 0.4%, potassium 0.7%.

Additives: Vitamin B1 395mg, vitamin B2 115mg, Calcium pantothenate 595mg, nicotinamide 980mg, vitamin B6 195mg, vitamin B12 1450mg, folate 25mg, biotin 370mg, vitamin 130 IU, L-carnitine 448mg, chloride, antioxidants, colourants.


Do you have The Honest Kitchen Dehydrated Food available to you? It looks like oatmeal - it's NOT kibble. It is 100% human grade food - dehydrated meat and vegetables. It is the ONLY pet food in the USA that the FDA legally allows to use the words "Human Food" on packaging and advertising. The employees at the company actually taste test each batch! It has helped MANY dogs on this blog.

Years ago when our male had protein in his urine, this is what our holistic vet suggested. It was the Honest Kitchen "Base Mix" to which you add your own meat (raw or cooked) and contains all of the vitamins, minerals and nutrients your dog would need.
There are also various complete recipe's that contains meat, veg & fruit (see LOVE below).

Honest Kitchen LOVE: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/love Store Locator: Where to Buy Honest Kitchen - Honest Kitchen Stores | The Honest Kitchen A 10# box RE-hydrates to about 35 pounds of food, but you feed more than kibble because it is real food.


Honest Kitchen BASE MIXES to which you add your own raw or cooked meat. https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/base-mix


Sojo's and Grandma Lucy's make a similar product.


As for recipe's, I think you should consult an animal nutritionist to come up with a diet and make sure he is getting everything he needs.


Quote: "
But I don't want to depend on tablets. I'd rather have his nutrition with/in FOOD."
They are not eating a live "fresh kill". They are eating store bought "dead" meat/organs, that you are cooking, resulting in lost nutrient value from high temperatures.
So you do need to support raw diet's and home cooked diet's with supplements.


Moms



@moms2GSDs Thanks a lot for the links. But unfortunately, we don't get these here.


*IMPORTANT * Moms and everyone, sorry for eating your heads but I want to update you guys on something:

This is the first blood work I've got done for him after we shifted to home-made food.

1. Creatinine - 1.3. Up from 1.2 in Feb.
2. BUN - 16.
3. Serum Calcium - 9.2(sept'16) to 8.4(feb'16) to 8.6 (now).
4. Serum Magnesium - Down to 2.7 from 2.9.
5.Serum Phosphorus - Down to 3 from 3.5.
6. Serum Potassium - Big fall - from 4.4 to 3.7

His platelet count is down to 1.7 lakh/cumm from 2.2. Hb - 14%.

Rest RBC, MCV,MCH,MCHC are all in normal range.

Protein leak + above information. What do you guys think? Any problem with Kidneys?
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 06:24 PM
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All of the tests that apply to your dogs kidneys look like they're in normal range. Bun/creatinine are fine. Phos and k aren't elevated to indicate any problem with kidneys. I'll echo what your vet has said and said there's nothing wrong with his kidneys. Why don't you trust what he says? I'm just curious here. I think your priority should be getting the dog on a balanced complete diet. Is there anything other than the dog being more lethargic and peeing more often that's got you worried? I mean does he seem healthy to you?
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 05-10-2017, 06:45 PM
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I think your priority should be getting the dog on a balanced complete diet
agreed

the answer has been given so many times -- the dog's diet is nutritionally deficient .

Carmen

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