PTSD Service Dog that growls? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
GSDolch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Loudon, TN
Posts: 6,353
Send a message via MSN to GSDolch
PTSD Service Dog that growls?

I am really hoping I can get some insight on this situation. Our pagan community hosts lots of events, one of the more popular ones are the craft fairs were we have vendors come in and sell things. Well, there is a women there who vends, she is in an automatic wheelchair and says she has PTSD.

A friend of mine brought three children she was babysitting to the event and she was talking with this woman. Now, these children were doing nothing wrong, just standing there. One of them took a step to stand on the other side of my friend, not quickly, or jumping or anything like that. She did have to get a little closer to the wheelchair to get to the other side, but not right by it.

Well, the lady in the wheelchair had a basket between her feet and there was a dog..looked like a chihuahua mix type dog. It growled at the kids, and the women told the children that this was her service dog and that it growled at people to let her know that they were standing to close since she has PTSD.

Now, I'll keep my personal thoughts about this woman to myself. I just would like to know if this is accepted or common? If it is not is there anything with the ADA that shows it is not? My concern is for the group that hosts these events getting into trouble if something happens and this dog bites someone.

~Johanna~

Baily ~ GSD x ~ (Jan 2001 - Jan 2016)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Buddy ~ Schnauzer X Jack Russell ~ 11yrs
Merlin ~ Solid Black Cat DOB 4/5/2015 <Super Stalker Ninja Kitty>
Carrot ~ Solid Black Cat DOB (est) 7/15/2015
GSDolch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 10:01 PM
Elite Member
 
Hineni7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NE WA (state)
Posts: 1,839
From my experience, PTSD and close proximity would be well known to her before the dog growled!!! Panic sets in in unexpected ways, hard, and a therapy dog would be there to calm you - not set you off on am attack because someone was to close.... Hmmmm
Hineni7 is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 10:03 PM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,958
yeah...um...no...




Jax08 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 10:13 PM
Elite Member
 
Pax8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: TX
Posts: 1,428
Ummm. No. I'll have to look up the guidelines again, but I believe it is stated in ADA guidelines that a service dog cannot show ANY aggressive behavior toward any person in public. A little dog could probably respond to an episode, but from what I have seen, it has always been large dogs that do space control.

If I start having a panic attack, mine walks circles around me to back other people up, then responds to me. Or if someone walks up behind me, he hangs back and stands across my backside so they can't reach out and touch me from behind because it can set me off. But he can never growl, jump, snap or do anything anyone might deem aggressive.
Pax8 is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
GSDolch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Loudon, TN
Posts: 6,353
Send a message via MSN to GSDolch
Ok, thanks! I was pretty sure that was the case but I wanted to make sure myself before I went to the board with it. I'm trying to google the guidlines but I keep coming up with third party articles.

~Johanna~

Baily ~ GSD x ~ (Jan 2001 - Jan 2016)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Buddy ~ Schnauzer X Jack Russell ~ 11yrs
Merlin ~ Solid Black Cat DOB 4/5/2015 <Super Stalker Ninja Kitty>
Carrot ~ Solid Black Cat DOB (est) 7/15/2015
GSDolch is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 10:31 PM
Elite Member
 
Pax8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: TX
Posts: 1,428
Commonly Asked Questions About Service Animals in Places of Business

Here is a Q&A from the ADA website that seems to classify growling at other people as an "out of control" behavior and grounds for the dog to be removed.
Pax8 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 01:43 AM
Moderator
 
ILGHAUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Central FLorida, east of Gainesville
Posts: 9,026
PSD or Mobility or DAD, no SD should ever growl as part of its work. Doesn't matter if the person can not see, walk or pick up dropped items -- any dog that growls in such a situation has no business being out in the community.

" ... it growled at people to let her know that they were standing to close since she has PTSD."

No, not accepted nor allowed by Federal Law as shown by the document by the Dept. of Justice, Civil Rights Division that was referenced to by the previous post. (Bolding is mine.)

10. Q: What if a service animal barks or growls at other people, or otherwise acts out of control?

A: You may exclude any animal, including a service animal, from your facility when that animal's behavior poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. For example, any service animal that displays vicious behavior towards other guests or customers may be excluded. You may not make assumptions, however, about how a particular animal is likely to behave based on your past experience with other animals. Each situation must be considered individually.

Although a public accommodation may exclude any service animal that is out of control, it should give the individual with a disability who uses the service animal the option of continuing to enjoy its goods and services without having the service animal on the premises.

Reproduction of this document is encouraged so I would suggest making a copy for anyone in charge of these activities who needs to sit in on any decision making on this topic. And since the phone # is included to the ADA Information Line anyone who may still be unsure has direct access to speaking with the correct people at the Dept. of Justice.

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
Pyro vom Wildhaus aka Kaleb ~S.T.A.R.~
Family Companion, Non-Profit Mascot, In-Home Service Dog


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project (ADAP),
Humane Animal Education & Services (HAES),
ILGHAUS is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 01:46 AM
Master Member
 
Thewretched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Birmingham Alabama
Posts: 715
PTSD Service Dog that growls?

Service dogs are only allowed to protect its owner when the owner is incapacitated, say, having a seizure, or passed out, the dog will recognize that and not allow anyone near the owner. Just to stop thieves.

A service dog is also allowed to "block" people from getting close, if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws.

So if someone were to approach you, you give a "stand back I have a service dog", if they continue threateningly, the dog is allowed a bark and hold.

I honestly don't believe small dogs have a place in the world of SDs. I understand they can, but it's my personal opinion there is a different breed that can suit the needs better, generally GSDs are used for PTSD due to their ability to brace the owner, and deal with a person with PTSD's outbursts of rage.

The dog shouldn't have growled at a child, the person is probably full of it.

EDIT: this is what I gathered from my local PD department.
Thewretched is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 12:34 PM
Moderator
 
ILGHAUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Central FLorida, east of Gainesville
Posts: 9,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewretched View Post
Service dogs are only allowed to protect its owner when the owner is incapacitated, say, having a seizure, or passed out, the dog will recognize that and not allow anyone near the owner. Just to stop thieves.

A service dog is also allowed to "block" people from getting close, if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws.

So if someone were to approach you, you give a "stand back I have a service dog", if they continue threateningly, the dog is allowed a bark and hold.

I honestly don't believe small dogs have a place in the world of SDs. I understand they can, but it's my personal opinion there is a different breed that can suit the needs better, generally GSDs are used for PTSD due to their ability to brace the owner, and deal with a person with PTSD's outbursts of rage.

The dog shouldn't have growled at a child, the person is probably full of it.

EDIT: this is what I gathered from my local PD department.


If you know someone with your local PD, you may want to suggest that they may want to request and have their officers attend a workshop. Their training officer may want to at least get copies of documents from the Dept. of Justice on Public Access.

Someone from the PD can also call the ADA Informational Line
800-514-0301 (voice) or 800-514-0383 (TTY)

A SD must allow emergency personnel to attend to the handler if "the owner is incapacitated".

Something that should be considered when discussing a dog's thought and then decision making process is that a dog doesn't think and reason like a human. The dog doesn't stop to consider:
*) Is this person removing my handler's wallet to take money from it or are they checking for a medical history and/or a contact card?
*) Is this person checking my owner's wrist to steal their watch or looking for a Medical Alert bracelet (or maybe even checking their pause)?
*) Is this person removing parts of my handler's clothing to aid them in carrying out a medical procedure or ...

"A service dog is also allowed to "block" people from getting close, if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws."

A SD is allowed to "block" which is not taking an active stance such as showing teeth or even nudging someone away but only to passively act as a living wall to create some space.

As to: "if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws." ......
No, No, and a big No. That would legally make a SD a weapon.

"I honestly don't believe small dogs have a place in the world of SDs. I understand they can, but it's my personal opinion there is a different breed that can suit the needs better, generally GSDs are used for PTSD due to their ability to brace the owner, and deal with a person with PTSD's outbursts of rage."

Small dogs have a huge place in the world of Assistance Dogs. They make wonderful Hearing Dogs, DADs and can perform many types of tasks including those needed by dogs trained to respond to other medical alerts.

Honestly, many of us that know GSDs will not recommend a breed such as a GSD as a choice for someone not experienced with them.

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
Pyro vom Wildhaus aka Kaleb ~S.T.A.R.~
Family Companion, Non-Profit Mascot, In-Home Service Dog


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Member of Assistance Dog Advocacy Project (ADAP),
Humane Animal Education & Services (HAES),

Last edited by ILGHAUS; 12-08-2014 at 12:37 PM.
ILGHAUS is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 12:41 PM
Elite Member
 
Hineni7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NE WA (state)
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILGHAUS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewretched View Post
Service dogs are only allowed to protect its owner when the owner is incapacitated, say, having a seizure, or passed out, the dog will recognize that and not allow anyone near the owner. Just to stop thieves.

A service dog is also allowed to "block" people from getting close, if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws.

So if someone were to approach you, you give a "stand back I have a service dog", if they continue threateningly, the dog is allowed a bark and hold.

I honestly don't believe small dogs have a place in the world of SDs. I understand they can, but it's my personal opinion there is a different breed that can suit the needs better, generally GSDs are used for PTSD due to their ability to brace the owner, and deal with a person with PTSD's outbursts of rage.

The dog shouldn't have growled at a child, the person is probably full of it.

EDIT: this is what I gathered from my local PD department.


If you know someone with your local PD, you may want to suggest that they may want to request and have their officers attend a workshop. Their training officer may want to at least get copies of documents from the Dept. of Justice on Public Access.

Someone from the PD can also call the ADA Informational Line
800-514-0301 (voice) or 800-514-0383 (TTY)

A SD must allow emergency personnel to attend to the handler if " the owner is incapacitated".

Something that should be considered when discussing a dog's thought and then decision making process is that a dog doesn't think and reason like a human. The dog doesn't stop to consider:
*) Is this person removing my handler's wallet to take money from it or are they checking for a medical history and/or a contact card?
*) Is this person checking my owner's wrist to steal their watch or looking for a Medical Alert bracelet (or maybe even checking their pause)?
*) Is this person removing parts of my handler's clothing to aid them in carrying out a medical procedure or ...

"A service dog is also allowed to "block" people from getting close, if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws."

A SD is allowed to "block" which is not taking an active stance such as showing teeth or even nudging someone away but only to passively act as a living wall to create some space.

As to: "if the owner gives a warning, similar to gun rules and "stand your ground" laws." ......
No, No, and a big No. That would legally make a SD a weapon.

"I honestly don't believe small dogs have a place in the world of SDs. I understand they can, but it's my personal opinion there is a different breed that can suit the needs better, generally GSDs are used for PTSD due to their ability to brace the owner, and deal with a person with PTSD's outbursts of rage."

Small dogs have a huge place in the world of Assistance Dogs. They make wonderful Hearing Dogs, DADs and can perform many types of tasks including those needed by dogs trained to respond to other medical alerts.

Honestly, many of us that know GSDs will not recommend a breed such as a GSD as a choice for someone not experienced with them.
Why is that? A well trained SD GSD should be well socialized and thoroughly capable of any tasks needed... Just curious
Hineni7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome