"professionally trained" Service Dogs - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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"professionally trained" Service Dogs

I just found (and posted) the full text of the law proposed in Watertown, NY that would ban all dogs from public events in the city. That thread is located here - https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...ml#post2335761

Among the text is the following paragraph below, bolding mine.

Quote:
There shall be excluded from this section any owner of a dog which is defined under Section 108 of the New York Agriculture and Markets Law, as the same may be amended from time to time, as a guide dog, hearing dog, service dog, working search dog, therapy dog, detection dog, war dog, or any other dog which may be utilized by law enforcement agencies within the jurisdiction of the City, or which are professionally trained service animals utilized by persons with disabilities.
I thought this may be worth discussing.

New York's Agriculture and Markets Law waives licensing fees for the types of dogs listed above, provided that you can prove your animal falls into one of those categories. My dog is a therapy dog, registered with TDI, so it is very easy for me to prove that she is a Therapy Dog - I just have to show her TDI ID card when I renew my dog license. I expect it would work the same at any of these events, as Therapy Dogs would be exempt from the ban.

However, where this gets weird is with Service Dogs because, as you all know, they are NOT REQUIRED to have any sort of license, picture ID or identification on them - and the Service Dog IDs that you commonly see are those bought over the Internet that anyone can buy.

So this law would likely make it so that people who are legitimately disabled and legitimately use a trained Service Dog would be discriminated against. Particularly since the wording stipulates "any professionally trained service animal". Emphasis on "professionally trained" - which would exclude owner/handler trained dogs.

Opinions?

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 01:47 PM
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Therapy dogs are not allowed in public venues that have rules baring animals? They do not have auto access rights so I am very confused by what you have written.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 03:51 PM
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So this law would likely make it so that people who are legitimately disabled and legitimately use a trained Service Dog would be discriminated against. Particularly since the wording stipulates "any professionally trained service animal". Emphasis on "professionally trained" - which would exclude owner/handler trained dogs.
They are opening themselves up to a lot of trouble. Wonder if this mayor is aware that the ban is in direct violation of Fed. Civil Rights Law and the Dept. of Justice?

"A public accommodation shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal."

Above quote from Title III - New Section Regarding Service Animals Added
Published in the Federal Register in August 2010

PART 36 - NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF DISABILITY IN PUBLIC
ACCOMMODATIONS AND COMMERCIAL FACILITIES (as amended by the title
III final rule signed by Attorney General Holder on July 23, 2010)
Authority: 5 U.S.C. 301; 28 U.S.C. 509, 510; 42 U.S.C. 12186(b).
Subpart C -- Specific Requirements

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Therapy dogs are not allowed in public venues that have rules baring animals? They do not have auto access rights so I am very confused by what you have written.
Have you read the link I posted in the first paragraph?

In a nutshell, the city of Watertown is attempting to ban all dogs from outdoor public events that are held on city property. Those include parades, the farmer's market, fairs, events at the park, etc. Basically any event that will draw a lot of people.

They would also be banned from within 20ft of any playgrounds, from organized sporting events (like kids' soccer games) and the like, if those are on "public" (city-owned) property. If would even bar you from bringing your dog to a dog event (like a dog show at the fairgrounds) if the dog is not competing in the event.

All of these events currently allow PET dogs to attend without restrictions, both in Watertown and in the majority of towns in this country.

Under the proposed ban, which would make it illegal to bring your dogs to such an event, they have listed a number of "exceptions" that would still be allowed, while PET dogs would no longer be allowed. A Therapy Dog, although not a service animal, would still be allowed at these events. A Search-and-Rescue dog would still be allowed. As would, of course, Service Dogs. But your family PET would no longer be allowed.

Make more sense?

Quote:
Wonder if this mayor is aware that the ban is in direct violation of Fed. Civil Rights Law and the Dept. of Justice?
Probably not.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 08:17 AM
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Yes, that clears it up some, thank you. Living where I do, I am already used to pet dogs not being allowed in all of the above mentioned function places. These are rules against dogs being in public anywhere that are sweeping the whole nation. The only thing it results in are un socialized dogs because they are not allowed anywhere.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 08:21 AM
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Here's where I expect a lot of people to go online and get fake service dog IDs, so they can take their pets out with them....
To be quite honest - I probably would. In this situation, I would tell them Ozzy is a seizure alert dog, get him a little vest and fake ID (since it states professionally trained, so an ID might look more legit) so I could take him to places like dog events (that he's not competing in), and the like. Would I do it to get him into stores? No. But this makes socializing their dogs much, much harder for people, forcing them to resort to doing things they may otherwise not do. My guess? Less socialized dogs, more dog bites, more dog bans....

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 03:45 PM
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Here's where I expect a lot of people to go online and get fake service dog IDs, so they can take their pets out with them....
To be quite honest - I probably would. In this situation, I would tell them Ozzy is a seizure alert dog, get him a little vest and fake ID (since it states professionally trained, so an ID might look more legit) so I could take him to places like dog events (that he's not competing in), and the like

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Here's where I expect a lot of people to go online and get fake service dog IDs, so they can take their pets out with them....
To be quite honest - I probably would. In this situation, I would tell them Ozzy is a seizure alert dog, get him a little vest and fake ID (since it states professionally trained, so an ID might look more legit) so I could take him to places like dog events (that he's not competing in), and the like
To be quite honest - I probably would. In this situation, I would tell them Ozzy is a seizure alert dog, get him a little vest and fake ID (since it states professionally trained, so an ID might look more legit) so I could take him to places like dog events



That kind of dishonesty makes it harder on the folks that need the assistance dogs. That is very wrong.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 04:20 PM
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Anyone that gets a fake ID for their non-service dog would just be asking for the biggest lawsuit ever if their dog ever did anything. I don't like the sound of the law, but if you think you're going to get around it by getting these fake tags then I wish you all the best. I know people think their dog will never bite/hurt anyone, but on that off chance that someone steps on their tail, or falls over them, you will be in a world of hurt. Not only will the fact that your dog truly isn't a service dog come out, but you illegally brought them into the place by falsifying their credentials.

There are other places to socialize your dog that are legal, you don't need a parade ground or a fair to see that many people. My dog didn't go to an extremely crowded public space until he was almost one, and he did perfectly fine and was very well behaved. There's no reason to make things bigger than they are, dogs don't need to go to public places with a ton of people in order to be well mannered and not bite.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 04:26 PM
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Unfortunately many will feel they are entitled to have their dogs where they are not allowed and service dogs/their handlers will be penalized for the fakers.

I am against people faking service dogs and all for a government process to certify and license all service dogs. A need to weed out the liars and weed out improperly trained dogs being passed off as trained service dogs exists. I believe an epidemic of poorly trained and false dogs are on the rise from both scam trainers and people that just want to take their dogs in public.

Training classes and dog sport venues are the proper and legal way to socialize your dogs. Your dog does not need to be conformationally correct to be part of either option.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-15-2011, 04:39 PM
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Training classes and dog sport venues are the proper and legal way to socialize your dogs. Your dog does not need to be conformationally correct to be part of either option.


I agree. Also petco and petsmart allow dogs inside. there is no reason to be dishonest to socialize. folks do it all the time.
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