Discussion Topic -- PSDs and ESDs - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Discussion Topic -- PSDs and ESDs

Is there a difference between a Psychiatric Service Dog and an Emotional Support Dog?

Is there a difference in how they are used?

Is there a legal difference?

Should PSDs be considered a SD when we talk about Public Access?

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
Pyro vom Wildhaus aka Kaleb ~S.T.A.R.~
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 02:30 AM
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my knowledge and experience is a PSD is basically a therapy dog who is taken to hospitals and such while an emotional support dog is someones pet. An emotional support dog is where things get tricky because many people assume an ESD is the same as a SD when they're not. An ESD is generally "prescribed" for those who suffer from depression and medication hasnt helped or they cant take the medication prescribed for some reason. They arent trained for anything specific other than just providing emotional support and comfort for the person at home. They cant legally go anywhere public where pets are not allowed whereas a SD, say for example plays the part of an emotional support dog say for example for someone who has asbergers syndrome they have trouble coping with general cues and understanding what you or i would consider normal. Like someone jokes, they have trouble picking up on it. They stress easily in social situations or new situations and their dog is trained to not only calm but place themselves either in between their handler and the stresser or encourage their handler to remove themselves from the situation. They're often taught to retrieve medications as well. Myself, the other thread i'm assuming this one stems from, i would consider that boys dog to be a service dog as she provides a necessary, possibly life saving service in sensing an oncoming seizure and providing comfort IE staying with her handler or barking and alert for help and using that magnet in her collar to help ease the seizure itself. Just like i would consider the border collie i saw in walmart the other day to be a service dog. She was a diabetic service dog. She wears a pack that carries insulin and emergency information for her owner, who to contact in the event of an emergency and such. She provides a possible life saving service. I know there are many who consider a PSD and an ESD to be one and the same. It really depends on who you ask which makes the question so difficult to understand and answer

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"Dax" Thor z vom Weberhaus BCAT CAX2 CGCA ETD HCT NCO-1 PKD-T RATI RATN RA TC TKA 3/18/2013
"Hades" Guilty vom Blutfeuer 10/26/2018
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 03:17 AM
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It varies by state whether or not an ESD is allowed access to businesses. In Washington, an ESD would be classified as a companion animal and would be allowed access only if the owner has a disability. However, since businesses are prohibited from requiring proof of disability, some counties recommend that businesses allow all companion animals.

Krystal, I would not personally consider the border collie to be a service dog, since the owner could easily carry the the insulin and emergency information him/herself.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by paulag1955 View Post
It varies by state whether or not an ESD is allowed access to businesses. In Washington, an ESD would be classified as a companion animal and would be allowed access only if the owner has a disability. However, since businesses are prohibited from requiring proof of disability, some counties recommend that businesses allow all companion animals.

Krystal, I would not personally consider the border collie to be a service dog, since the owner could easily carry the the insulin and emergency information him/herself.

i apologize Paula, i should have gone into deeper detail on that one. The border collie was trained to alert when her blood sugar got too low too quickly. I know a Diabetic detection dog would benefit my grandma as she has hit bottom before she realized her sugar had dropped so much. I see her often at walmart. The dog is usually calm and cool and collected but the one time i saw the dog react, it was swift and to the point like an arrow. She started getting aggitated and pretty forceful in her alert nosing of the woman's hand and then the woman just kind of slid to the floor like she'd melted it was that quick.

I know one of our neighbors and good friend back home, his two dogs are registered as companion animals. Mocha is a catahoula mix and she's trained to bring medication (recently trained) and get ice packs from the freezer when needed. Heaven (they adopted her from us) is working on public access training and retrieving various objects because Paul is slightly immoblie due to a construction accident about 15 years ago. He can legally have Mocha live anywhere with him without having to pay a pet deposit or pet rent but Heaven he'll be able to take her anywhere and everywhere. Only reason he cant do that with Mocha is because she's possessive with her owners. Heaven is friendly all around but being a puppy all she wants to do is play but she's mellowing out.


Edit: I've seen the border collie with this woman a couple more times the last few days. She's a very nice lady and had recently lost her last diabetic alert dog which would explain my recent confusion of this new dog. Sorry. Lack of sleep equals brain not fully functioning. Her new dog is named Vanessa, Nessa for short. Her LAST dog was the one i've seen alert intensely when she collapsed.

Shasta GSD 5/5/10 CGC, ITD, TC
"Dax" Thor z vom Weberhaus BCAT CAX2 CGCA ETD HCT NCO-1 PKD-T RATI RATN RA TC TKA 3/18/2013
"Hades" Guilty vom Blutfeuer 10/26/2018
Zena GSD 6/1/03-2/16/2016
Riley GSD/BC 1/10/05-2/1/2013

Last edited by KZoppa; 12-27-2010 at 03:38 AM.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:16 AM Thread Starter
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my knowledge and experience is a PSD is basically a therapy dog who is taken to hospitals and such
Quote:
the other thread i'm assuming this one stems from, i would consider that boys dog to be a service dog as she provides a necessary, possibly life saving service in sensing an oncoming seizure and providing comfort
No, this thread is not based on another. It is a discussion thread that I like to do to find out what people know about SDs thereby hopefully we can share knowledge and possibly assist those who would like to become more educated on the subject of SDs.

Quote:
It really depends on who you ask which makes the question so difficult to understand and answer
This is why education on the subject of SDs so important so that people understand what a SD really is and they don't confuse one type of working dog with another.

And remember, for the sake of this particular discussion I brought up *Psychiatric Service Dog* and *Emotional Support Dog* not Medical Alert / Response Dog or Therapy Dog.

But whatever you answer right now is OK as I want people to honestly say what they believe is the answer. Then by the end of this thread the goal is to explain and make more clear the answers.

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
Pyro vom Wildhaus aka Kaleb ~S.T.A.R.~
Family Companion, Non-Profit Mascot, In-Home Service Dog


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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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It varies by state whether or not an ESD is allowed access to businesses. In Washington, an ESD would be classified as a companion animal and would be allowed access only if the owner has a disability. However, since businesses are prohibited from requiring proof of disability, some counties recommend that businesses allow all companion animals.
Do you have any links where Washington State allow ESDs access into a business. The only two places that I have heard this is allowed is several locations in California - and somewhere in New York State - I believe it was New York City.

I doubt I'm wrong here but I have never heard of any county in the U.S. recommending that businesses allow all companion animals. But if you have a link to such a recommendation I would really appreciate being able to read it.

Quote:
his two dogs are registered as companion animals.
** Not part of this topic but I'm getting confused now. What type of registration for a companion animal? Are you talking about registration with the county for a rabies tag? **

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
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Family Companion, Non-Profit Mascot, In-Home Service Dog


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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILGHAUS View Post
Do you have any links where Washington State allow ESDs access into a business. The only two places that I have heard this is allowed is several locations in California - and somewhere in New York State - I believe it was New York City.

I doubt I'm wrong here but I have never heard of any county in the U.S. recommending that businesses allow all companion animals. But if you have a link to such a recommendation I would really appreciate being able to read it.



** Not part of this topic but I'm getting confused now. What type of registration for a companion animal? Are you talking about registration with the county for a rabies tag? **

yes i'm sorry. I'm failing at elaborating today. I really should go to bed. He has to have it shown on the rabies tag they're a companion animal so it can then be shown on the lease to his apartment. If he doesnt have proof of rabies with a sidenote stating companion animal, the complex wont allow the dog as anything other than a pet in which pet deposit and pet rent must be paid.

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"Dax" Thor z vom Weberhaus BCAT CAX2 CGCA ETD HCT NCO-1 PKD-T RATI RATN RA TC TKA 3/18/2013
"Hades" Guilty vom Blutfeuer 10/26/2018
Zena GSD 6/1/03-2/16/2016
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ILGHAUS View Post
No, this thread is not based on another. It is a discussion thread that I like to do to find out what people know about SDs thereby hopefully we can share knowledge and possibly assist those who would like to become more educated on the subject of SDs.



This is why education on the subject of SDs so important so that people understand what a SD really is and they don't confuse one type of working dog with another.

And remember, for the sake of this particular discussion I brought up *Psychiatric Service Dog* and *Emotional Support Dog* not Medical Alert / Response Dog or Therapy Dog.

But whatever you answer right now is OK as I want people to honestly say what they believe is the answer. Then by the end of this thread the goal is to explain and make more clear the answers.

k dokie. makes sense. cant wait to see where it goes!

Shasta GSD 5/5/10 CGC, ITD, TC
"Dax" Thor z vom Weberhaus BCAT CAX2 CGCA ETD HCT NCO-1 PKD-T RATI RATN RA TC TKA 3/18/2013
"Hades" Guilty vom Blutfeuer 10/26/2018
Zena GSD 6/1/03-2/16/2016
Riley GSD/BC 1/10/05-2/1/2013
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 10:47 AM
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I have recently read more up on PSD dogs there is a good book that talks about them called Healing Hands.

To have a service dog you have to be impaired a mental illness is an impairment if this person can not function on a minimal level because of their illness.

Emotional support dogs are dogs that provide companionship,affection, comfort and are not trained to in task work. They do not have the public access that PSD dogs to under the ADA. They are well trained pets that are emotionally in tuned to their owners but from what I have read to have benefits vs a pet dog.

"However, their owners are afforded privileges through a Federal grant which allows them to keep the dog in most types of housing, even when there is a “no pets” policy. The Air Carrier Access Act provides policies that permit a person with a disability to travel with a prescribed emotional support animal so long as they have appropriate documentation and the animal is not a danger to or interferes with others."
Emotional Support Dog

As for PSD dogs they are trained to work and perform a task for the person. There are various tasks that they can perform either be in at home or in the public situation. These dogs have the public service hours training and can work in a public situation comfortably and reliably. Tasks that a PSD dog can provide stability if a person gets dizzy or after an episode, waking a person up if need be, blocking a person from danger, if they become disoriented in public leading them to a designated person or safe zone, before an episode occurs they can interupt the person before it happens.

It is interesting when you read about PSD dogs because they do different tasks that a guide dog can do (guiding the person or blocking them from danger), some things a hearing dog can do (alerting or signaling the person if they are sleeping heavily because of the meds they are on), what a mobility dog can do (bracing a person or stability support) etc..

When you look at the difference between Emotional Support Dog and a PSD dog you are looking for trained behaviors vs natural behaviors.

Upon reading about the difference I found an interesting statement and it said this is what the courts will ask.

1. is the behavior the dog is doing trained or natural
2. it must migrate the person's disability
3. it must be needed by that handler

After reading different websites and books this is where I am at with the differences.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Emotional support dogs are dogs that provide companionship,affection, comfort and are not trained to in task work. ... They are well trained pets
Do they need to be certified by anyone in obedience? What level of obedience?

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"However, their owners are afforded privileges through a Federal grant which allows them to keep the dog in most types of housing, even when there is a “no pets” policy.
A Federal grant? As in someone fills out a grant form and submits it to be chosen by a grant committee? Do you have a link to a website where you found this?

TJ aka Theresa A. Jennings
Pyro vom Wildhaus aka Kaleb ~S.T.A.R.~
Family Companion, Non-Profit Mascot, In-Home Service Dog


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