Bi-color, right?? Color gene confirmation please - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Bi-color, right?? Color gene confirmation please

This guy is definitely a bi-color, right?

Quack von der Ernetranch ? working-dog

According to the genetic color chart, that means his "genetics" are either at-at or at-a His parent's are both sable....so that means the parents genes have to be either aw-at or aw-a (because he is a bi color)....which means the litter can only be sables or bi's...correct? Are color genetics really that simple? I would think it would be a poly-allele trait (rustling up my college genetics here)...could the parents also throw a traditional saddle back/mask (assuming this is something more complicated than single-loci traits)?

For reference so you don't have to flip back and forth on the chart....

at-bicolor
aw-sable
a-black
as-black and tan

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 02:27 AM
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One of the parents have a bicolor gene, and the other has a bicolor or more recessive. Most pups were likely sable. 1/4 would be bicolor. None would be anything more recessive.

Sable rules all genetically like brown eyes in humans. I have a sable and a black which I'll breed. I *know* the black is double black simply because she is black... The sable I had DNA tested and is AW/AW. I know all pups will therefore show sable but be sable/black.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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Nevermind, I figured out what I needed. Lol, sorry.

Edit: thanks hunter, didn't ssee you replied until I posted this lol.

"An excess of size is an unserviceable feature for breeding, his powers of endurance, his speed and the smartness of his movements suffer in all circumstances. Giants are never nimble."-Creator of GSD
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, so a sable male (unknown genes) bred to a bicolor, would have to carry the recessive black or bi for pups to throw bi pups? Is it really that simple?? I thought that bi wasn't it's own "gene" but more of a different expression of the Black and tan...

"An excess of size is an unserviceable feature for breeding, his powers of endurance, his speed and the smartness of his movements suffer in all circumstances. Giants are never nimble."-Creator of GSD
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 03:14 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting article.

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/con...ppl_1/S11.full

"An excess of size is an unserviceable feature for breeding, his powers of endurance, his speed and the smartness of his movements suffer in all circumstances. Giants are never nimble."-Creator of GSD
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 09:35 AM
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The majority of BI's carry the black recessive. There are some that are homozygous for BI, but they are much more rare. The only homozygous BI I have ever seen lacked the pencilling on his toes, but had the tar heals and produced BI (I bred to him). In this pup's case I believe he would have inherited the BI from one parents and black from the other. You would have to research the parents, their littermates (or full siblings) and parents to figure out which carries black and which carried BI.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 09:39 AM
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When I bred my b/t female that carries black to a Sable that carries BI I got 3 b/t pups that must carry BI. Then I bred another b/t female that carries black to a sable that carries BI and I got 3 sables (I am pretty sure 2 got mom's black recessive, but not sure about the third), 1 b/t that must carry BI and 1 BI (that carries black).

Yes, BI is its own gene. I question the black in our breed, but that is another discussion.

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SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena IPO1 KKL CGC B/HOT, LB (the ugly little sable) IPO2 KKL B/HOT, and gone but not forgotten,
Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD CGC HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT



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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 11-21-2013, 09:52 AM
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My female with no pedigree is a bi. Her mom (B&T)produced 3 bi's in her litter. Sire was an Am pet line B&T. The breeder bred her again with a sable and more bi's were produced in 2 or three litters. The bi's with the sable sire were very dark pigmented and the sables were also much darker than the sire. There were never any blacks produced in any of the litters.
The dam also carried the white spotting gene, Onyx has white spotting and one pup in the 2nd litter had white sox going up the legs. Onyx's white never faded or blended in...it is still very evident(so she lacks toe penciling)

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