Preventative Meds the cause??? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Preventative Meds the cause???

My GSD suffered from various autoimmune disorders before finally dying of Hemangeoscarcoma. The breeder feels these issues were directly related to me giving heart worm & flea/tick preventative meds. Does anyone have any info to support/ oppose these claims?


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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 08:43 AM
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Autoimmune disorders are not caused by flea/tick or dewormers. Sounds like the breeder is passing the buck on bad genetics to you. And there is plenty of evidence that hemangiosarcoma is prevalent in some breeds over others which implies a genetic component.





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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 08:54 AM
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Here is an excerpt on hemangiosarcoma in Golden Retrievers
PLOS ONE: Gene Expression Profiles of Sporadic Canine Hemangiosarcoma Are Uniquely Associated with Breed

Another good article. Interesting note in here that says a cancer "similar" in people is caused by chemical exposure. But if that is the case with hemangiosarcoma, why is it only prevalent in some dog breeds?
Hemangiosarcoma - CVM - ACCR, University of Minnesota




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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I am still concerned how preventative meds may effect dogs, but it does seem that the cancer is likely a genetic issue. The breeder also indicated that early neutering (before 1 year of age) is a contributing factor to immune disorders as well as cancer. Can anyone confirm or disprove?


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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 09:47 PM
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Here is some info I pulled from my files. I can't seem to undo the "underlines" on this, sorry.
Hope this helps,
Moms
Dr. Karen Becker: “If you decide to spay your dog, holding off on the surgery until she is sexually mature and fully mentally and physically developed can help protect her against many forms of cancers and endocrine diseases later on.” Pyometra: More Than a Uterine Infection


As a veterinary oncologist and founder of the pet hospice program Pawspice, Dr. Villalobos concedes, “It is earth shattering to consider that some of the cancers we have been battling may have been enhanced by early neutering instead of the reverse.”
Page 2 of 12:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf
“The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we really do not yet understand about this subject. On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.
On the positive side, neutering male dogs
•eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
•reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
•reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
•may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)
On the negative side, neutering male dogs
•if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
•increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
•triples the risk of hypothyroidism
•increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
•triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
•quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
•doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
•increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations"
"There is a growing body of scientific evidence that points to the harmful effects of spaying and neutering: shortened life span, increased risk of certain cancers, and increased incidence of ACL injuries. Depending on your situation, you may wish to delay the spaying or neutering of your dog until it is 14 months old or not sterilize it at all. If you're worried about not being able to control your dog when it becomes sexually mature, consider a vasectomy or tubal ligation, which will prevent your dog from becoming a parent, but retain the beneficial effects of the dog's sex hormones." Ted Kerasote
7/13: https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/130401s.aspx


Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx?e_cid=20130930Z1_PetsNL_art_1&utm_sourc e=petnl_RTLUBIQ&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1& utm_campaign=20130930Z1RTLUBIQ

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 10:21 PM
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Hemangiosarcoma is prevalent in a number of breeds. I lost a dog to it as well.

While I have no scientific evidence, having worked in the veterinary field for close to 20 years, I can say that the large majority of dogs that are given monthly preventatives DO NOT get hemangiosarcoma.

That said I think it is worth considering the fact that due to much better nutrition and medical care, animals are living longer. Eventually something has to take them. So we do see lots of cancer. But is it because cancer is more prevalent? Or because 30 years ago dogs did not live long enough to have it develop? I don't know? Same with people. Cancer is the great equalizer.




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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-19-2013, 05:10 PM
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The only dog I had die of Heamangio was fit & healthy all his life, never a days illness, he wasnt vaccinated after the age of 3yrs, he never had Heartworm medication, infact the day he collapsed he had completed a track. When they opened him up his spleen was full and the tumor had burst causing internal bleeding, also a lobe of his liver had broken off into the body cavity.

The dog I had with immune problems, wasnt castrated he developed Atopic dermititis at 2 years, quite severe adverse reactions to meat proteins, I got these under control and limited treats to vegetarian ones along with a Duck based complete which kept the condition under control at 5 yrs he developed another immune condition Heamolytic aneamia which he didnt survive. his pedigree was backmassed in 9th generation.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-23-2013, 10:13 PM
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Having worked in biotech, particularly immunology, with a graduate degree in environmental toxicology with a focus on pesticides, this is my perspective:

Pesticides absolutely can cause cancer in humans, so why not dogs? They affect many cellular mechanisms and cause DNA changes (upregulation, downregulation, regulatory mimics, nucleotide swaps, protein changes in the folded DNA, etc).

Also, cancer predisposition has a genetic component.

Bottom line, you can avoid all the environmental toxins, and end up with a random mutation that causes oncogenesis. Or, you can be exposed moderately to environmental toxins (as we all are, anyway), and develop a completely different kind of cancer, unrelated, or none at all. Or, you can develop a cancer completely correlated with your toxin exposure.

Heartworm scares the crap out of me, so I treat preventatively for that. When we lived in tick-ville, I needed to treat because I'd pick off kidney-size engorged ticks from her, and tick checks were lengthy and difficult.

Now we live where ticks aren't a problem. She's not on tick preventative, and I took her off flea preventative, to save her toxin exposure. I have the natural spray that seems to work well with our very low flea exposure. If we had a major problem, I would treat.

I hate doing that, knowing what these can cause. I know others are successful in other remedies and I was closely studying and trying them. But then our move to a new area relieved the burden, thankfully.

(By the way, I had malignant melanoma from hanging out in the sun, having a genetic predisposition via a faulty DNA polymerase enzyme that could not recognize the Thymine dimer that UV radiation creates in DNA. Therefore, my body couldn't recognize the problem and made several copies of that cell. Glad to get it excised!).

We live, we do our best, always taking in the information and making the best decision we can at the time, for the given situation.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-23-2013, 11:17 PM
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You can chew yourself up worrying about what caused your dog's problem. I have lost a bitch to hemangiosarcoma. She was the one that had the most flea/tick preventative and heartworm preventatives of all my dogs. She was spayed later in life. I am trying to scale back on stuff that I put right into my dog's blood stream to kill pests/insects.

But I don't believe that it caused the cancer. Cancer is very prevalent in our area with humans. And none of them put pesticides on their skin that kills bugs for several weeks. I think it is more likely that there are pollutants in the water, or in the food, that contributes to our critters illnesses.

I think that there may be a genetic component to some diseases, and there is evidence that early spay/neuter may contribute. But there are so many possibilities, there are no certainties.

If the point of this thread is to feel guilty over using products on the dog, vaccines, early spay neuter, than that really doesn't help much.

If it makes you feel better, we can all roundly abuse the breeder. She should have probably kept this information to herself when your dog died.

But if the point of this thread is to determine what to do differently in hopes of avoiding an illness that takes a critter younger that they ought to go, than you might want to consider the following:

1. Pick strong bloodlines, find some where the dogs behind the breeding pair are living 12-14 years.

2. Don't spay or neuter, or at least wait until the dog has reached its full growth.

3. After the puppy vaccines, titer instead of vaccinating whenever possible.

4. Feed the best food you can find that your dog does well on, and this takes some research.

5. Avoid unnecessary pesticides on your dog and in your environment. If your dog gets fleas, treat them aggressively, but avoid preventatives.

6. Determine your risks on whether it makes sense to give heartworm meds, and during what months, and whether it makes sense to do lymes disease or lepto vaccines. This may require some research in your area as well.

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-24-2013, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
You can chew yourself up worrying about what caused your dog's problem. I have lost a bitch to hemangiosarcoma. She was the one that had the most flea/tick preventative and heartworm preventatives of all my dogs. She was spayed later in life. I am trying to scale back on stuff that I put right into my dog's blood stream to kill pests/insects.

But I don't believe that it caused the cancer. Cancer is very prevalent in our area with humans. And none of them put pesticides on their skin that kills bugs for several weeks. I think it is more likely that there are pollutants in the water, or in the food, that contributes to our critters illnesses.

I think that there may be a genetic component to some diseases, and there is evidence that early spay/neuter may contribute. But there are so many possibilities, there are no certainties.

If the point of this thread is to feel guilty over using products on the dog, vaccines, early spay neuter, than that really doesn't help much.

If it makes you feel better, we can all roundly abuse the breeder. She should have probably kept this information to herself when your dog died.

But if the point of this thread is to determine what to do differently in hopes of avoiding an illness that takes a critter younger that they ought to go, than you might want to consider the following:

1. Pick strong bloodlines, find some where the dogs behind the breeding pair are living 12-14 years.

2. Don't spay or neuter, or at least wait until the dog has reached its full growth.

3. After the puppy vaccines, titer instead of vaccinating whenever possible.

4. Feed the best food you can find that your dog does well on, and this takes some research.

5. Avoid unnecessary pesticides on your dog and in your environment. If your dog gets fleas, treat them aggressively, but avoid preventatives.

6. Determine your risks on whether it makes sense to give heartworm meds, and during what months, and whether it makes sense to do lymes disease or lepto vaccines. This may require some research in your area as well.
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