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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Disclosure

Don't know the exact section to put this in, but I was wondering what some of your opinions are on disclosing everything you know about a puppy to a potential buyer. If a puppy had something like an umbilical hernia and you knew before the buyer picked it up would you let them know? Would you offer the puppy or a future puppy if they didn't want to proceed?
As a buyer, how would you feel? If you wouldn't disclose, how important to you would an issue have to be to disclose?
Just a little frustrated, looking for opinions and some perspective.

Six - 8/16/2011
Reggie J. Simpson - 9 y/o GSD

Last edited by Six; 10-28-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:07 PM
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A small umbilical hernia is pretty common, sometimes caused by the dam pulling too hard on the cord when cleaning up the puppy and is not considered a major issue. Sometimes you don't even notice those until the puppy is older than when they were sold.

Testicles are another thing that you may not know what is going to happen at 8 weeks. There, most breeders do offer some refund or replacement options as a retained testicle should be surgically removed.

To me, the best hip warranty is a good breeding program. You are buying a puppy not a car.

IF I were a breeder and a customer wanted a replacement for something so minor as a small hernia, I think I would be asking them to look elsewhere.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:11 PM
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I was told my puppy had a small heart murmur. Knowing that these can be common with puppies, I bought him anyway. No heart murmur has been found since he came home.

Better to be honest than to get a reputation as a dishonest breeder.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I understand this position and when I discovered it I thought to myself, this sucks but what can I do.
However, when I did what I thought was right and informed the breeder so they were aware I was told that they already knew.
My question is should the breeder have disclosed before taking possession of the puppy that the puppy had an umbilical hernia? Assuming the breeder knew full well that the hernia existed, would it be the right thing to disclose it and let the buyer decide?
What may not be an issue at 6 weeks may an issue later. While it may be no problem for some people, maybe it is for someone else. I just feel that I should have had the option to say "hey, I can deal with that" or "its something I'd rather not deal with, could I wait for the next litter".

Six - 8/16/2011
Reggie J. Simpson - 9 y/o GSD

Last edited by Six; 10-28-2011 at 11:17 PM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:23 PM
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If the breeder knew, they probably should have told you but it is such a minor problem (and it sounds very small as you describe it), such a common problem that it probably did not cross their mind. Often they close up on their own.

I am just saying it does not sound deceptive or misleading. I think you are too concerned about it-puppies are animals and they are all going to have some or another flaw. If it is that small the dog may go the rest of his life without any impact and if you get him neutered later you can just get a stich put in.

In the scope of things there are many many far more serious things to be concerned about.....I *would* expect the breeder to tell me about a heart murmur or sypmptoms of a congenital disorder.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
If the breeder knew, they probably should have told you but it is such a minor problem (and it sounds very small as you describe it), such a common problem that it probably did not cross their mind. Often they close up on their own.

I am just saying it does not sound deceptive or misleading. I think you are too concerned about it-puppies are animals and they are all going to have some or another flaw. If it is that small the dog may go the rest of his life without any impact and if you get him neutered later you can just get a stich put in.

In the scope of things there are many many far more serious things to be concerned about.....I *would* expect the breeder to tell me about a heart murmur or sypmptoms of a congenital disorder.
Thanks. It's at least a dime size so I don't know. I don't plan on neutering anytime soon, it may or may not need surgery, I'll find out soon. I also think it may be the cause for his discomfort, I dont know. What's important to everyone is different. Where is the line drawn? Broken ear cartilage? An underbite? While these things won't generally affect a dog, they are very important to some people. I understand things happen and plan to deal with problems that arise throughout the dogs life, I guess I feel that something like this that may or may not be complicated should be disclosed before going to a home...especially since it was found by a vet beforehand. It may not have been misleading intentionally but still, I think a buyer spending good money should be able to make an informed decision based off a complete history of the puppy especially being such an large and important purchase.
I appreciate your view on the issue though, it helps.

Six - 8/16/2011
Reggie J. Simpson - 9 y/o GSD

Last edited by Six; 10-28-2011 at 11:41 PM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:42 PM
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A dime sounds fairly large. Your first post on it led me to believe it was much smaller-just a typical small hernia that would close on its own. Something that big, possibly requiring surgery should be discolsed......I would agree to that even though it still is a fairly minor issue.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:47 PM
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They should have told you. It may have slipped their mind. Tori had an umbilical hernia. Still does I think, haven't checked it out recently. They said to fix it when she is spayed or before she has a litter, but as I am not spaying and not breeding her, I left it alone. It isn't hurting anything.

I did offer her to someone as a replacement puppy. The fellow whose sister was watching the puppy when he went down south to visit an ailing relative. The sister let the puppies out, the bus hit the one pup and not the other. But the owner of the dog did take him to training, got him neutered, worked with him, brought him to see me, and I felt that if they wanted a replacement (for free) I would do so.

I disclosed the small umbilical hernea, with the write up from the vet and everything. Well, they decided no, they would take the other puppy. Well, that is just fine. Tori went to my brother, he gave her back to me five weeks later saying she was defiant, and I took her put a CGC on her and placed twice on her RN. The umbilical hernea has not stopped her or slowed her down at all.

Should they have disclosed it? Yes.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, based off what I found on the internet at the time I thought it was considered small. I would say that if there weren't tissue and organs on the other side the soft spot is definitely bigger than the tip of my finger, the diameter extends out around it, and one would be able to slide a finger in. I would guess as large as a dime, smaller than a quarter at this point maybe. I don't think any intestine would become trapped right now, but as he grows who can say. Who knew everything on the internets wasn't true

Six - 8/16/2011
Reggie J. Simpson - 9 y/o GSD
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
They should have told you. It may have slipped their mind. Tori had an umbilical hernia. Still does I think, haven't checked it out recently. They said to fix it when she is spayed or before she has a litter, but as I am not spaying and not breeding her, I left it alone. It isn't hurting anything.

I did offer her to someone as a replacement puppy. The fellow whose sister was watching the puppy when he went down south to visit an ailing relative. The sister let the puppies out, the bus hit the one pup and not the other. But the owner of the dog did take him to training, got him neutered, worked with him, brought him to see me, and I felt that if they wanted a replacement (for free) I would do so.

I disclosed the small umbilical hernea, with the write up from the vet and everything. Well, they decided no, they would take the other puppy. Well, that is just fine. Tori went to my brother, he gave her back to me five weeks later saying she was defiant, and I took her put a CGC on her and placed twice on her RN. The umbilical hernea has not stopped her or slowed her down at all.

Should they have disclosed it? Yes.
Thanks. I don't have any recourse or anything so its something I'll just have to deal with. Doesn't make it any less frustrating though If it were disclosed beforehand I would've opted to wait for another litter. Even now, and it may sound heartless, I would most likely take a replacement, but that's not an option.
Just wanted to gather other opinions, maybe some differing perspectives to help ease said frustration.

Six - 8/16/2011
Reggie J. Simpson - 9 y/o GSD

Last edited by Six; 10-28-2011 at 11:56 PM.
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