Question for you breeders on genetic illnesses - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-12-2010, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Question for you breeders on genetic illnesses

OK, one of the guys in my Schutzhund club just lost his 9 month old pup. The dog started having severe pain issues and was at the vets 3 days before he passed from illness. The preliminary autopsy reports show that it was a genetic kidney defect. Well, the breeder (and no I am not going to name them) has had several reports lately of dogs with genetic kidney issues. The oldest one I have seen was a 3 year old I believe.
The breeder told the owner he would replace the dog. My question is, with so many dogs coming up with kidney issues from this kennel, would you chance it? How would you handle this? I personally don't know if I would risk getting another pup from them and possibly going through the same thing.

SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 11:21 AM
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As far as I know, there is not a test for breeding stock for genetic Kidney disease. What constitutes "genetic kidney disease"? And are all of the dogs affected related? It may be safe to get a puppy from the same breeder if not from the same sire or dam.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 11:44 AM
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It may be safe to get a puppy from the same breeder if not from the same sire or dam.
I agree.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 11:45 AM
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My question is, with so many dogs coming up with kidney issues from this kennel, would you chance it? How would you handle this? I personally don't know if I would risk getting another pup from them and possibly going through the same thing.

Most genetic issues are not as straight forward as many people think they are. It sounds like the breeder is pretty honest. I would ask more questions, such as if the affected dogs were all closely related. All dogs carry the potential to produce some genetic diseases, certain lines or individuals carry a higher risk of producing certain diseases. Without genetic testing available for the specific disease, breeders can only make educated guesses.

I bred a dog (not a GSD) who CERF'd clear multiple times, then developed atypical pannus. By time she developed it, she had two litters. Of the two litters, one puppy in the first litter and two in the second developed atypical pannus. The rest are unaffected.

A friend had a puppy die of cardiomyopathy (again not a GSD). The breeder gave her a second puppy from the same litter, also died of cardio. The breeder gave her a third puppy and he lived with be 14 years old.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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I honestly cannot tell you if all of the dogs were the same lines or not. I would have to pick through the pedigrees of each individual dog. This kennel is a very large kennel and dogs go in and out constantly from what I have seen. I don't even think the breeder has the sire and dam anymore of my club member's pup.
I just know he is extremely upset with what happened to his pup. I would be too. It's heartbreaking.
I do know that the 3 year old from this kennel died this year after receiving a kidney transplant. I really wish there was some way to test for this stuff.
I have my club day tomorrow, so any advice would help to pass on to him.

SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaka View Post
As far as I know, there is not a test for breeding stock for genetic Kidney disease. What constitutes "genetic kidney disease"? And are all of the dogs affected related? It may be safe to get a puppy from the same breeder if not from the same sire or dam.

I do not know exactly what it is yet. Hopefully I will find out more tomorrow. All I do know is that it was a genetic defect to the kidneys which caused them to go into renal failure. He then ended up suffering from multi-organ failure and had to be put down. There was nothing that could be done to save him.

SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 01:11 PM
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Renal Cystadenocarcinoma and Nodular Dermatofibrosis... this is the only inherited renal problem that I have heard about in GSDs. There could be others.

Some breeds are more known for genetic kidney issues like polycystic kidneys. I think this is more in beagles and some terriers.

It would be interesting to know what the diagnosis was.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-13-2010, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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I will see if I can find out for sure tomorrow. He won't be there but he is communicating with our president at the club.

SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-14-2010, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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So, the member was not there today. He is supposed to come back to the club last week. I was not able to get a clear answer on exactly what the pup was diagnosed with but I do know he picked his new pup to bring home in a few weeks. The new pup is from the same sire as the one he just lost. I really hope this next pup is ok.

SBD Posejpal's Leyna, HCTs 6/16/2010
SBD Posejpal's Hades, 5/9/12

At the rainbow bridge:
Zappa 12/27/00-1/23/12 You are my heart, my soul, and my best friend. You will be with me always.
Zeus 5/9/12-8/13/12 You taught me strength. Run free.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 09:34 AM
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My thoughts are if this is indeed a genetic issue that the sire and dam shouldn't be used for breeding again to take the chance of this happening again. I feel it doesn't matter whether 2 pups copme down with it or not they both should be retired. Now you have to look at how many pups from these 2 dogs have been produced not only pups from mom but the pups that dad produced also as they can also be carriers of it also.

Kendra, I feel sorry for your club member and what he has gone thru loosing his pup.

What I think is it can be called an honest mistake the first time and possibly the 2nd time but when this continues to happen and a breed continues to breed these dogs I really have no compassion for him/her. Now we have these pups adding to the gene pool of issues!!!

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