Silver Sable + Black = ? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Silver Sable + Black = ?

Obviously it is a sable litter, but is there any way to find out what shade of sable the pups will be?
The dam is pure black, I don't think the father has any black in his genes, so her recessive colors did not pass to any of the pups.
The sire is a gorgeous silver sable.

I am new to genetics, but I am trying to learn.
If I am reading this right, the pups will be aw+a, which sable color is that?
http://www.ehretgsd.com/GSDcolorGenes.pdf

I can't find what aw+a is. I'm sure it is very simple, but I have NOT had my coffee today, so I'm a bit slow.
Please humor me


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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

The one I'm getting is, of course, the itty bitty fluffykins in my avatar.


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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 11:59 AM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

i don't think that having a black parent will determine the shade of sable the pups will turn out. black is black and sable is sable. feel free to correct me if i'm wrong... but a solid black and a light sable arent going to make black sable pups unless there are specific dogs of that color somewhere in the pedigree.

(similar to the misconception of "my puppy is light b/t because the mother was a wgsd") know what i mean?

as far as guessing the shade of sable - look at the mothers parents, and the shade of sable on the dads side. if there is anything from light sable to medium to dark to black - then you can likely get any one of those shades. if they're mostly light sables - chances are the pups will turn out light.

i'm just speaking on what i've seen/heard... aw+a is greek to me

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 12:20 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

The only way the black parent will affect the pups is that some of them may inherit the black recessive and COULD be a darker sable. But sables can change a LOT in the first couple of years and could not change THAT much over all in the end. You have probably seen pictures of my guys on here. I do not have as many pictures of the males as adults but the females vary from Rayne a tan legged sable with moderate black on her back to Ari who had silver legs and much darker than Rayne on her back and more coverage to KC who was VERY dark sable with tan legs and more of a bi-color patterned dark sable.


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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

Jesse's mom was sable and father black and tan, he has a sable line down his back and has been changing constantly for the last 18 months, adding more grey colour into his black saddle.

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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

Ask Daryl what he thinks the pup will mature out to. He is the when it comes to color genetics one of the top people in knowledge.


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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 12:40 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

This is Halo's dam: http://www.rokanhaus.com/hanuta.html

Her sire is solid black. Since Halo is only 6-1/2 months old I have no idea what she'll look like, but right now, she's got a lot of black on her muzzle, some red on and around her ears, and the rest of her coat is coming in very dark, so she may end up darker than mom.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 01:00 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: APBTLove
If I am reading this right, the pups will be aw+a, which sable color is that?
http://www.ehretgsd.com/GSDcolorGenes.pdf
The aw+a isn't a color of sable. It is the dog's genotype. He will have on sable gene (aw) and one black gene (a). The dog's phenotype will be sable, as it is the dominant gene.


What color the pups turn out to be depends on what other genes the sire carries. If the dam is black, she is homozygous for black (both of her color genes are black). Black is recessive to every other color. Her recessive genes DID pass onto the pups, but they are not expressed because the color gene inherited from the sire is dominant over the black.

The sable sire can be homozygous sable (both genes for sable), or heterozygous (one sable gene, one gene of any other color).

If he's homozygous sable, all pups will be sable. If he is heterozygous, some pups will be sable, others will be whatever other color gene he carries (black/tan, bi-color or black).


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 01:01 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: SherushJesse's mom was sable and father black and tan, he has a sable line down his back and has been changing constantly for the last 18 months, adding more grey colour into his black saddle.
This stripe is actually referred to as a "bitch stripe" (though it occurs in males too) and is very common in black/tans. It is unrelated to the sable coloring and doesn't have anything to do with his mom being sable.


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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2009, 01:03 PM
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Re: Silver Sable + Black = ?

Quote:
Originally Posted By: SherushJesse's mom was sable and father black and tan, he has a sable line down his back and has been changing constantly for the last 18 months, adding more grey colour into his black saddle.
if jesse is a black and tan, then the sable that goes down his back is called a bitch stripe. ("stripe" even tho they can sometimes take over the whole saddle). its totally different from a genetic sable.

my male has a bitch stripe and because his hairs are banded, i personally refer to them as sable hairs (sabling or sable ticking). Xeph pointed out in another recent thread, that the hairs in her b/t males b/stripe are not banded.

OP - sorry for the thread hijack, just wanted to point that out.

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