Bothering a dog while it is eating: controversy - Page 22 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #211 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dionne2u View Post
I really wasn't wondering, it was evident where it was coming from. I don't need to show who's Alpha, and don't care. I want a family dog, a dog that can work, play, live in society, with society. I train my dogs to be therapy and service dogs not wolves. Been training for 26+ years now with much success.

Now where does taking the dogs food away and giving it back come in? Totally confused with that statement. I would not suggest anyone do that as a training method, there have been times i needed to add something in their food and taken the bowl away to add it but never for training and i expect not to be growled at nor any other aggressive sign when i need to do such.
Ive brought dogs home and puppies that were very territorial with their food around animals and people, they realize quickly there is no need to be and the behavior is not appropriate. I can come up to a feed bowl and if I choose, stick my hand in it or a child can stick their hand in it with no worries. My nephew even eats out of their boy ha! With no issues.

Now what i do wonder and does concern me (being you wanted to clarify),is not the sticking of a hand in a food bowl, or the wolf/dog comments. No, my wonderment and concern is sticking a dog in a kennel where it's main joy in life is food. How many wolves exactly prefer that experience? How many dogs? Yeah give me a hand in my bowl any day verses being cooped up in a kennel all day.

you where not the intended target it was someone else who asked. I feel it is a personal choice about doing it or not, i have done with with the three i have had and no issues at all, my dad did it to his dog and no problems my mom did not and we ran into big problems.
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post #212 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 05:40 PM
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It comes from the mindset that in wolf packs the alpha eats first and can interrupt a subordinates meal whenever it feel like.
My questions were rhetorical. I’m familiar with the theories that have lead to people believing they need to dominate their dogs and be the “alpha”. My statment perhaps should have read, “I cannot believe people still subscribe to this line of thinking.”

Train the dog in front of you.
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post #213 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 05:47 PM
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@hoyten i am not sure how it copied your message, my message wasn't to you. I too believe it's a choice 🙂
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post #214 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 06:00 PM
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I hope my wife doesn't read this........ uh oh......gotta go and hide....here she comes......

Well, just don't start going out to eat and then regurgitating some of it at home for her to "enjoy." That's another privilege of being the alpha female, if she misses a hunt (e.g., while caring for pups).
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post #215 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dionne2u View Post

Now what i do wonder and does concern me (being you wanted to clarify),is not the sticking of a hand in a food bowl, or the wolf/dog comments. No, my wonderment and concern is sticking a dog in a kennel where it's main joy in life is food. How many wolves exactly prefer that experience? How many dogs? Yeah give me a hand in my bowl any day verses being cooped up in a kennel all day.
Cooped up, LOL! My dogs are kenneled, not crated all day and then all night as they would have to be if they were not kenneled. Because intact bitches are ok with each other, until they are not, and leaving them in a huge pack would mean bloodbaths.

Instead they are in large kennels, most of them with another that they get along well with. The high point of the day is feeding time. That is when they first see me and I am carrying food and water. Nothing strange in that. But they have plenty of room. They can run around, lay down, drink, potty, and enjoy the company of others.

They are animals, and whether they are inside or outside makes no difference whatsoever. What is important is that they are comfortable and engaged mentally and physically, which they are.

I love the general attitude here, that finds it totally appropriate to crate an animal inside for 9 or 10 hours while they are gone for work, and then another 7-8 hours per day when they sleep. That is 16 to 18 hours out of 24 in a box. But they blow a gasket at the idea of dogs in kennels.

I currently have 5 indoor dogs, and guess what? The highlight of their day is feeding time. My indoor dogs have doggy doors to their outside kennel areas, so they can potty when I am not home. Only 4 of my bitches are kenneled individually. The other 11 are in pairs save that one is a trio.

Heidi Ho, Odie
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post #216 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 10:24 PM
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So i guess you're saying not to place my hand in their bowl and don't crate but do kennel. Or maybe crate but only if i have another doggie in there with her. Ahhh yes, for human contact means soooo little to a gsd.
Hum, well to make you feel better i don't crate nor do i kennel but i just can't seem to keep my hands out of their bowls. Sigh.
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post #217 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-16-2018, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dionne2u View Post
So i guess you're saying not to place my hand in their bowl and don't crate but do kennel. Or maybe crate but only if i have another doggie in there with her. Ahhh yes, for human contact means soooo little to a gsd.
Hum, well to make you feel better i don't crate nor do i kennel but i just can't seem to keep my hands out of their bowls. Sigh.
I don't go out of my way to put my hands in their dishes. It wouldn't matter if I did. I just don't. And yes, I am not a fan of the amount of crating folks are comfortable with here. Kenneling a dog or a pair of dogs is a whole lot better in my opinion.

I can and do take any of my dogs anywhere and they do fine in all situations. It is a lot more than a lot of folks can say. I suppose, this happens because I neglect them, abuse them, and haven't a clue about training and managing them. LOL!!!!! Oh, and I can do all this without the gadgets I've been told are necessary, like prong collars, e-collars, clickers, and the like.

Ah well, I can continue to blow my horn, but I am a breeder, as well as a pet owner. I have intact bitches and an intact dog, and that means we do not all run in one big pack. It also means that sometimes I get dogs back as adults, or keep dogs that I have no intention of breeding or selling. I keep my old gals, gals I have bred because I want to see how they fare with regards to longevity and health. So yes, I have more dogs than your average pet owner. I don't have a problem with that. My dogs do not have a problem with that. If you do, oh well, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

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post #218 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-16-2018, 12:29 AM
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Let's stay on topic please folks and not start sniping back and forth at each other.
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post #219 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-16-2018, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Dionne2u View Post
@hoyten i am not sure how it copied your message, my message wasn't to you. I too believe it's a choice 🙂
got to love that LOL
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post #220 of 222 (permalink) Old 12-17-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tim_s_adams View Post
Valid points, and I certainly see and respect your logic. I do think the approach you choose varies greatly with age. If you try this, messing with the dog's food, with an older dog who is pretty serious about gaurding his food, you're likely to lose some blood. With a puppy, not so much. So there is that!

I can actually understand how "messing with a dog's food" in the way you're describing could teach them not to guard too...provided you start with a puppy AND give them no other reason not to trust you. Again, if it works for you and your dog it is the right approach!

That being said, I'm very much in agreement with @Sabis mom in that, I've yet to see a dog that can't get over resource guarding food from any human (dogs don't count because sometimes they can't be trusted for good reason LOL!), with the one exception I mentioned previously (the complete nerve bag that required medication to just get through the day without self mutilation and panic).

I certainly wouldn't try - or suggest to anyone else - to just "mess" with an adult resource guarding dog's food - without desensitizing them first and building up some trust. It would be a process and it would involve lots of hand feeding most likely.

This, like many other behavioral issues, can be extremely difficult to overcome if/when you attempt to "confront" the issue directly. More often than not, again IMHO, the problem is often best approached indirectly. A resource guarding dog, for example, often will have poor impulse control across the board. So working on impulse control in non-threatening ways can help. Likewise, general obedience usually helps broadly with other unwanted behaviors. And working on these things with the dog helps build trust, so it's a win win win.

To me it has always been fascinating how several vastly different training approaches can achieve the same or similar results. Trying to understand why or how that can work, I feel has helped me to better understand the canine mind...inasmuchas we can ever hope to do so

Yes, I was talking about with puppies. I should have been more clear on that. With an adult rescue who has guarding issues, I would absolutely approach things a bit more cautiously. I think you hit the nail on the head, though - trust. It all comes full circle, and it takes more than working on one thing for success at even that one thing. My dad used to always say, "Take care of the pennies, and the dollars will take care of them selves." I think the same is true with dogs. You do all the "little" things right, and the big things often take care of themselves. Now if I could just not make any mistakes on my end, lol.
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