"Aggression" Breed - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 111Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 11:50 AM
Elite Member
 
voodoolamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 1,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdicEclipse View Post
And it is easily corrected if a person with experience in rehabilitating aggressive or reactive dogs is doing it. Leash correction isn't even remotely how aggression or reactivity issues are dealt with. It's a very specific process. Reactivity will take weeks to resolve while true aggression can take a year to even two, but it can be done and is simply a matter of consistency, MASSIVE STRUCTURE, knowing the behaviors and being able to proactively work on them rather than chasing them after the fact. If the dog has these issues and even goes into drive you did it ALL wrong and had no business handling the dog. Going from this post, please don't ever try dealing with one.
Many genetically aggressive animals can NEVER be "rehabilitated". They can be MANAGED and controlled but the underlying potential for aggression will ALWAYS be there. I've owned several true, honest to god, genetically dog-aggressive dogs. Never had them cause any trouble in my care, because I understood their potential for aggression, kept them out of drive, and physically managed them around other dogs.

Personally, I would feel more comfortable around someone like @cloudpump handling an aggressive breed than most other people. He doesn't underestimate genetics and is less likely to make stupid mistakes then someone who thinks they have trained the aggression out.

I HATE the word "rehabilitate" for aggression cases anyways. By the very definition "rehabilitate" means to help return to it's normal state. Well... the "normal state" some of the aggressive dogs I owned was to bathe in the blood of their foes with a manic gleam in their eye. That's what their genetics drove them to desire.
voodoolamb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 11:53 AM
Elite Member
 
cloudpump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lyons NY
Posts: 1,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdicEclipse View Post
That's absolutely incorrect. Prey drive or pure working drive are ***not*** aggression. Territorial behavior is ***not*** aggression. So on and so forth. Every dog you've named there can indeed be dangerous with improperly channeled drive, lack of structure and ignorant handling but they do not default to aggression.

And it is easily corrected if a person with experience in rehabilitating aggressive or reactive dogs is doing it. Leash correction isn't even remotely how aggression or reactivity issues are dealt with. It's a very specific process. Reactivity will take weeks to resolve while true aggression can take a year to even two, but it can be done and is simply a matter of consistency, MASSIVE STRUCTURE, knowing the behaviors and being able to proactively work on them rather than chasing them after the fact. If the dog has these issues and even goes into drive you did it ALL wrong and had no business handling the dog. Going from this post, please don't ever try dealing with one.
So by your logic, a person can change genetics? Astounding.
If aggression is not aggression what is it?

Second part of Google definition. Sounds like aggression is another way of saying drive:
forceful and sometimes overly assertive pursuit of one's aims and interests.
synonyms: confidence, self-confidence, boldness, determination, forcefulness, vigor, energy, zeal
"he played the game with unceasing aggression"
voodoolamb likes this.

Snitches get stitches.
cloudpump is offline  
post #43 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 11:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 358
I'm going to chime in and agree that GSDs are bred to possess a tendency towards aggression. There's nothing wrong with that at all, and if they didn't, they wouldn't be willing to die to protect their families/handlers/homes/flocks from threats.

The problem arrives when owners fail to train their dog when aggression is acceptable and what specific threats need to be dealt with. GSDs don't know that the mailman isn't a threat. They don't automatically know that your kid running around crazy and stealing his bone is actually play and not a threat. Owners have to teach them what is and is not a threat. They have to teach them when it's time to take matters into their own hands v.s. trusting their owners to handle the situation.
cliffson1 and wolfy dog like this.
Kyrielle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 12:35 PM
Elite Member
 
CometDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 1,488
A lot of palava over the definition and usage of a word and it's definition here.

I do martial arts. I train aggressively. I have a "willingness" to take the aggression further if need be. Does not mean I want to hurt my training partner. I'm aggressive about my job- sales. But I don't harass people who aren't interested. I am very aggressive with teaching and using firearms for self defense and sport. I am willing to kill with one to preserve my family and myself. Does not mean I am a danger to society. I have appropriate aggression, absolutely. It is a good thing.

Not sure what one word would describe it..but I think we are talking about breeds susceptible to unprovoked, unwarranted, inappropriate to the threat level out of control BITING.

And yes, if you are not going to train yourself and your dog, you should not have a powerful drivey breed/line that can inflict high level damage.

I cringe at the FB and YouTube videos of people thinking it is hysterical when a GSD or Dobie owner posts video of their dog growling at boyfriends/husbands hugging them. Always with "does your dog do this lolol?" Uhmm, no, and I would not tolerate it right from the first time it happened. Or the ones when a protection breed is proudly filmed "protecting" the new baby by not letting the parents near it without growling. No, they are resource guarding your infant. They are owning it, you idiot. THOSE are the people we do not need owning our breed. Hurts us all.
car2ner likes this.

Valor 6/3/17
CGC BH AD
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- 6/3/17
Blitzen 2/21/19

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CometDog is offline  
post #45 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 12:37 PM
Crowned Member
 
MineAreWorkingline's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 4,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
Thats not true. There are breeds that are more prone to true aggression. Terriers are, gsds are, cane corsos, Caucasian shepherds, etc. These breeds were specifically bred to have true aggression in some form. Genetics.
And it's not necessarily a strong correction to stop it. A game terrier is not going snap out of drive from a two handed leash correction. A driven gsd is not going to come off a sleeve for the same correction. Same with cane corsos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdicEclipse View Post
That's absolutely incorrect. Prey drive or pure working drive are ***not*** aggression. Territorial behavior is ***not*** aggression. So on and so forth. Every dog you've named there can indeed be dangerous with improperly channeled drive, lack of structure and ignorant handling but they do not default to aggression.

And it is easily corrected if a person with experience in rehabilitating aggressive or reactive dogs is doing it. Leash correction isn't even remotely how aggression or reactivity issues are dealt with. It's a very specific process. Reactivity will take weeks to resolve while true aggression can take a year to even two, but it can be done and is simply a matter of consistency, MASSIVE STRUCTURE, knowing the behaviors and being able to proactively work on them rather than chasing them after the fact. If the dog has these issues and even goes into drive you did it ALL wrong and had no business handling the dog. Going from this post, please don't ever try dealing with one.
CometDog likes this.

Time itself is a very powerful component of learning. So learn to wait. Learn to forgive. Learn to backup. It's all necessary for learning.

Teach! Teach! Teach! Be fair to your dog!
MineAreWorkingline is offline  
post #46 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 01:13 PM
Elite Member
 
Nurse Bishop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Deceased
Posts: 1,759
The OPs dog look like a black lab cross. Couldn't they just say they have a Lab?
Nurse Bishop is offline  
post #47 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 01:26 PM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
The OPs dog look like a black lab cross. Couldn't they just say they have a Lab?
That's not as cool




Jax08 is offline  
post #48 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 03:07 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 31,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
The OPs dog look like a black lab cross. Couldn't they just say they have a Lab?
Are your suggesting someone lie? Because that's never the answer.
MineAreWorkingline likes this.

Heidi Ho, Odie
Joy-Joy, Bear Cub, Hepsi-Pepsi
Cujo2, Karma Chameleon
Ramona the Pest, Kojak -- who loves you baby?
Tiny Tinnie, Susie's Uzzi, Kaiah -- The Baby Monster.
selzer is offline  
post #49 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 03:37 PM
Crowned Member
 
selzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denmark, Ohio
Posts: 31,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffson1 View Post
So in essence, what you are saying is that everyone should NOT own a German Shepherd. Now when I have said that in the past, folks get their knickers bunched up and feelings hurt.....but the reality is that this breed requires responsible owners for WHAT the breed is. Plain and simple.
God, it is not rocket science to own a GSD. I don't believe irresponsible is incurable. I don't think it is genetic. I think we can hold people to a higher standard and a great many of them CAN achieve that higher standard. Yes, I did say that we should tell people that they need to be more careful with their dogs, or not own one of these dogs. That is like telling a teenager that he needs to leave his phone in his pocket or not drive a car. We are not suggesting the kid stop driving. We are suggesting he stop fmessing with his phone when he should be focused on driving.

There are a LOT of people walking through life these days with a bad case of irresponsibility. Common sense may be genetic. Intelligence potential -- you may be born with that, but you still need to work to reach your potential. But Irresponsibility is more like laziness. The good news is that NO ONE likes to hear that they are being irresponsible. If a co-worker comes in and says that their dog ran up to a lady riding a bicycle and the lady got so scared she crashed. I think it is our duty to point out, "That is really irresponsible to let your dog chase someone, she could have gotten hurt, you could have been sued." Immediate anger and excuses will be forth-coming. And maybe the owner won't tell you stories like that again. But probably she will think about it when the initial emotion goes down, and get a better handle on the dog.

Instead we (in general) tend to commiserate and excuse apparent accidents. I think we need to change that. I need we need to let people know, bluntly, that our dogs should not be running loose. If the dog got hit in the road, what was the dog doing in the road?

You could expect a certain amount of irresponsibility from first time owners, young owners, people who move to the country and then think it is ok to let their dogs run. Sometimes we need to teach these folks, nicely if possible, bluntly if necessary, that they need to protect themselves, by protecting their dogs, by protecting others from their dogs. The problem is, there seems to be a lot of people, not just young people or new folks to dog ownership, who seem to feel it is perfectly ok to be irresponsible with their dogs. Maybe they do not see it as irresponsibility. Maybe in the current climate it is so taboo to tell someone something they do not want to hear, that people are just smiling and nodding and saying "How nice." Instead of telling them, "What are you crazy, the dog is YOUR responsibility, you need to train it not to charge the door. You need to contain it before opening the door if you cannot stop the bad habit. You need to get the dog under control because it is IRRESPONSIBLE to let it frighten people or run in front of cars or chase other dogs.

It is cruel to let a dog get into a bad habit and remain there for months, when a solid, well-timed correction when it first happens, will eliminate it. The same is true for humans. It is doing no one any favors to excuse or ignore irresponsible behavior with regards to dogs. Unsolicited advice is generally not well-received. But, if someone's irresponsible behavior is likely to effect the breed as a whole and how the public views the breed, I think we should do more than excuse or ignore. Accidents don't just happen. These aren't pygmy puffs. Control your dog!
Sabis mom likes this.

Heidi Ho, Odie
Joy-Joy, Bear Cub, Hepsi-Pepsi
Cujo2, Karma Chameleon
Ramona the Pest, Kojak -- who loves you baby?
Tiny Tinnie, Susie's Uzzi, Kaiah -- The Baby Monster.
selzer is offline  
post #50 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-14-2018, 04:00 PM
Moderator
 
JakodaCD OA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Old Lyme, CT USA
Posts: 21,382
allstate here in ct anyway, will not cover you if you have gsd's...I know, they all of a sudden popped up with it, wanted me to get rid of my dogs,,uh no, got rid of them

Diane
Ozzie vom Kleinen Hain
Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi
Tranquillo's Kizzy
Jakoda's Kholee
"Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC
"Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT
"Angel" Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC
"Angel" Jakoda's Jagged Edge
JakodaCD OA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome