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My dog attacked/bit my kids. I'm out of options..

12K views 98 replies 30 participants last post by  cliffson1 
#1 · (Edited)
I am not sure where to post this so admin please feel free to move it to a different forum.

We have a 2 yo GSD female we got from a breeder. She wasn't fixed and he asked if we would consider breeding her at one point for him. We said maybe. A year later he did the X-ray of hips and she was so aggressive at the vet - they had to put her to sleep for the X-ray - that he was telling me that we need to do something about it. I wasn't too crazy about the breeding idea.

Anyway.. I have two young teenage girls and one is very attached to the dog- sleeps with Dash, hugs her etc.
Overall the dog is very sensitive even a bit anxious. But a good dog overall friendly with people (not so much with other dots though)
She is also super freaked out and aggressive when we try to cut her nails. She won't let us do it and she almost bit us a few months ago when we tried.

A month ago or so my kid were having a little disagreement outside and the dog attacked my other girl with bites through the skin. I had to pull her off her. I was shocked and wasn't sure what to do.

2 wks later the dog was asleep and my daughter went up to her and started hugging her and touched her paws. The dog attacked her with bites through the skin all over her body.

Then 4 days later we were leaving the house and the dog was just chilling by the entrance. When the same daughter was just passing the dog (totally benign no hint of interest in the dog) Dash just attacked her with multiple through the skin bites.

I am caught between many professionals and my family. All trainers and the vet agree that she should not be with us anymore, she became a bully, unpredictable behaviors etc. I am going insane having her still around as my daughter still hugs her and is in denial.

Vets urge me to euthanize.
Trainers think that she MAY be ok with different alpha and boundaries but think it may be a DNA/breeding flow.
My family thinks that a family member should take her. He however lives in a small apartment and works 10 hrs/day. And it would be too close to our family which all trainers said is important to avoid.
Breeder doesn't want her and blamed it all on me and said how disappointed he is as he was counting to breed her etc. only female in that litter etc. Made me feel like xxxx.

My other family members think that I'm a monster even considering euthanasia but I can't imagine if she attacks again.

I am at my wits end. Very stressed out and feel very much alone in this
.

My kids come first. 1 nite/attack
is a lot but 3???

Thank you for reading
Ela


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#3 ·
Buy a muzzle for that dog today! That's the first step until you decide what else to do. Without more background it's impossible to say why this dog is acting the way it is. But I agree with others who've said you need to remove the dog from your household. And for all the reasons mentioned, I agree it would not be good to rehome this dog with a family member. At the very least the dog will need a person well versed in dealing with GSD aggression issues. And whoever gets the dog must know all the details! Sorry you and your family have had to go through this, it's difficult to say the least. But don't put it off because someone WILL get hurt.
 
#7 ·
Well if she's a good dog 99% of the time then rehome her to an experienced gsd person. Preferably with no kids. Funny how the breeder wants nothing to do with her. Hopefully this is the last dog you get off this breeder.
 
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#6 ·
Well I am VERY protective of children and would not hesitate to put a dog that viciously attacked a child down, but we cannot know that that is the case here given what we've been told. So, I would not jump on that option yet! Have a professional evaluate the dog first!
 
#9 ·
Have you had her to the vet for a full check up? Check her thyroid? Personally, she wouldn't be in my house after the second bite, possibly not after the first bite. Kids come first. As others who have said, I would look for someone who has experience with GSDs with aggressive problems and who is willing to work with her. I'm glad you were able to get her to handle a muzzle. Your daughter needs to understand both of your girls need to leave the dog alone.
 
#11 ·
Even if you found the right trainer, and this is by no means a certainty by itself, there will be no easy solutions to an issue like this. It will involve a good chunk of management to keep the dog from hurting the girls. Muzzle, crate, high level corrections when you see the dog show any signs of aggression towards the kids. There is no way to work this issue directly if it is only happening towards children without risking a kid. Most trainers don't have direct access to children they are willing to risk. This is why behavior modification for something like this is impractical, unsafe, but not impossible. If it was my dog with my kids I don't have much of a doubt I'd be able to make it work, but I'm me.

Your options are essentially this.

1. Rehome a dog with bite history and hope it goes somewhere it won't be an issue (hard to do if you were honest about it)
2. Put the dog down
3. Manage the dog. Muzzle when its out around your kids while you are there to supervise and then crated when you can't
4. Try to go to a trainer to see if you can work the issues directly and then more than likely option 3 will still be a big part of your final solution. High level corrections for aggression will likely end up part of the solution as well and if it isn't you went to the wrong trainers.
 
#13 ·
Whats the upside Ela? What makes it worth living with a dog like this for you? Some people can do fine with managing and controlling every thing, the muzzling or kenneling, what ever works. Is it worth it for you to live with the risk? The nails are one thing, randomly attacking your daughter for walking by? Think hard about it. I'm not trying to be too harsh, and I'm sure you know how serious it is, but since my only advice would be keep her away from your daughters, that's why I'm asking if its worth it.
 
#15 ·
question, maybe I"m missing it,,has the dog attacked the SAME daughter each time? Is that daughter the one doing the hugging etc?

I agree with having a stern talking to the daughter who is 'hugging'the dog,,does she want the dog gone? Cause it will happen if she continues to do it. or she may be end up getting her face ripped off...the dog is obviously uncomfortable with that..No excuses for the dog biting 3 times,,but the behavior by your daughter may be making things worse?

It's hard to say 'what' to do, since you say the dog 99% of the time she's good..and we can't analyze this over the net..
 
#16 ·
Where are you located??? It's not like there are "no trainers" available that deal with dogs and kids?? You just have to know where to look. :)

That said it, is theoretically possible to "rehome" the dog into a "No Kids" household ... but the fact of the matter is, that would best have been done "before" the dog started to chomp down on kidlets! It's a big task at this point but "rehoming could still be done" with the "Right Rescue."
 
#17 ·
If this is what I am reading:

The one daughter is attached to the dog, hugs and is ok with it?
The other daughter has been attacked several times by the dog, all over her body? Does she also hug the dog and play with its paws.

The dog is aggressive at the vet and when it needs its toenails clipped?

I don't believe in re-homing a dog that bites kids. Sorry. If you could find someone that will take the dog, can you trust that person to disclose everything if that person ever rehomes the dog?

If the dog kills someone's child, would you be able to live with that, knowing what you know about this dog?

I think that when we take responsibility for a critter, if the dog becomes a danger to the family, we have ro do the responsible thing with the dog. Maybe with a lot of experience, you could personally work with the dog and keep everyone safe. But let's face it, if this dog was with Bailiff, it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Something would have been done differently long ago, if the whole thing isn't totally genetic. So if it is something that can be worked out of the dog, it would have never gotten to this point.

There are many dogs put down each day just because there is not space in the shelter. Is it right to rehome a dog that might do serious damage to another child?

I think you know what you should do, but it is really hard and disturbing, especially since one of your kids ins attached to the dog. Living 24/7 with a muzzle is not an answer.

If your dog had a brain tumor and was not able to walk and was incontinent, possibly in pain, you would make an appointment and have them euthanize your dog. If your dog has bitten your child multiple times on multiple occasions, requiring medical attention, than I think it has a disease that makes it unsafe to live in a family situation. if it is that unstable, unpredictable, fear-aggressive, it isn't in a good place at all. Euthanasia is not a punishment. It is putting a critter out of its misery. Some dogs are so fearful that life for them is not enjoyable.

I am sorry you are going through this. Kids do come first. . If I understand what you wrote, then I would put the dog down.
 
#18 ·
Aww well potential "Dust Up" notwithstanding ... the fact of the matter is, that right not now this dog, in this household, with this owner, with they are currently doing?? Is just not the right situation, no doubt!

Is the current situation "solvable" for this owner ... I don't know??? But Baillif feels ... it's not a problem and I know a particular trainer that deals with "dogs and kids " all the time. :)

So there is that ... as for me well ... I don't have kids. So there is that, rehoming the dog to a kidless home seems a viable option to me?? But the fact of the matter is the dog has already bitten kids??? So the pool of potential adoptees is gonna pretty small?? Most likely, there are not a lot of potential ... "I don't give a crap what the dog's history" is owners out there because under my watch ... it's not a problem!

The OP has to do what they need to do ... but there are "potential solution" available ... just saying.
 
#19 · (Edited)
There is lots of good advice above. I think everyone is trying to save this dog's life. So add me to that list.

Now, if I read correctly this dog is an adult dog. A full mouth chomp by an adult GSD is no laughing matter. You say more than once on young kids twelve, thirteen years old or there about? I would think these kids would be absolutely terrified of this dog yet they are still hugging him? Next I'm surprised if you were in the ER that the dog was not impounded at least temporarily. A dog bite here will get the cops involved the first time. The second time may be the end of the dog or a court appearance.

My Aussie is an extremely high drive dog not often seen. Often when playing she will accidently nip me. Not a chomp but a pinch that bleeds. She has never purposely bit me but I get nips occasionally. I stop the exercise immediately and go through a no bite routine and a calming exercise. It's something I've worked out just for this dog. Later she will lay next to me and gently lick the nips like she is sorry.

I'm not trying to minimize your case. From your posts it sounds very serious so I'll head there.

I don't think you can handle correcting this yourself. You simply don't have the experience or traning. Not being mean or judgmental, just factual. With that I'd recommend rehoming this dog immediately before someone gets really hurt. Maybe a farm person or country dweller.
If you keep the dog you are going to need a pro that really knows how to handle this. It's not going to be easy nor done quickly,nor cheaply.
He is going to have to teach you how to maintain the dog after he is done. He will have to come back periodically to make sure the dog has stabilized.

I'd get a good muzzle like NOW. Fed Ex over night. Try Ray Allen protection equipment or Leerburg protection equipment. Top quality leather. Not cheap. Yes, I use a prong, never harshly, just a twitch or rattle of the chain. It's a marker that I'm going to ask her to do things.

For some reason many people seem to think GSDs always need harsh corrections. Prong collars get yanked like the priest ringing the church bell. E collars are turned up so they crackle like the lightening of Hades. All this does is turn the dog angry towards you and worsens the situation.
I would not recommend you enter into this philosophy. As noted above, not all dogs like being hugged. Never hug this dog. Not ever again. You note problems trimming claws. I saw a neat solution for this recently. A scratch board was made with 80 grit sandpaper glued to it. A hidden trap door was put in the middle. The owner put treats or peanut butter in the pocket and had the dog try to get it by scratching. It wears the claws down naturally and toughens the pads. You reward the dog by giving him the treat. Another one was constructed on the door. The dog was encouraged to stand up and scratch at it to go out side.

So stop fighting the dog over trimming claws. He is viewing this as hurting him and you lose his trust or bond. My dog doesn't mind me touching or massaging her feet but hates the clippers. So instead of forcing the issue I simply take her to the vet. She loves going to the vet as she gets high value treats from me and pets and sweet talk from the vets. She doesn't like their treats. About the only thing she won't eat. They have her jump up on the table and gentle as can be they trim her claws. So any adversity is from the vet not me. They give me a discount as we come in every couple months for this or some other minor treatment so we both win.

As far as your breeder goes, well, I'd be pretty upset. Most good breeders will take the dog back and make an adjustment. I would not ever take another dog from them no matter what adjustment is made. If they want to give you another dog, I'd walk away., leave the adjustment and write it off to experience. I could get on my "phantom" soap box about breeders but that for another day.

I really hope you can get some pro help or re-home your dog. It's too bad this has happened but you must protect the kids.

Byron
 
#21 ·
Oh well I'll also add that this dgo copping and "attitude" about the nails and at the vet?? While yeah a "PIA" that it may be is not uncommon?? While to my surprise ... it's not an issue I had with my guy ... but vet and nail issues, is not uncommon ... it depends on the dog, the owner and the vet. :)
 
#23 ·
Massachusetts??? Baby states ... but close enough ... to RI. :)

The trainer I referenced would be Jeff Gellman at "SolidK9Training" ... this guy. :
Solid K9 Training aggressive dog rehab, dog anxiety - Rehabilitation and Family Dog Training

And he shows his work.:


If there is another trainer, out there that deals with dogs and kids and uses ... his kids for rehab and shows their work ... I have not found them???

I'd contact him or easier still ... this year he is doing free 15 minute Skype sessions ... see the left hand side.:
https://www.facebook.com/Solid-K9-Training-140229622668254/

I'm pretty sure I know well 90 percent of what he would say ... but I don't have kids! Getting my guy not to bite the crap out of "random" toddler appearances ... was good enough for me ... never saw that crap coming but my dog made good choices ... another story. :)
 
#25 ·
I really think you should rehome the dog. Every German Shepherd does NOT fit with every home. I would strongly encourage you to rehome her with an experienced German Shepherd owner, or dog training owner. Doesn't sound like she needs to be euthanized, because I have seen far worse dogs when removed and placed in experienced homes do very well. Your home is not good fit for many reasons.
 
#27 ·
Op, you indicated in your first post that many professionals and many trainers have given you advice that the dog needs to be out of your home. My question is: why are you questioning that advice? I can understand questioning the vets advice for euthanasia. But if you have sought out trainers for this issue, what is your hesitancy? This is an honest question and not geared towards pressuring you, but I would think that due to your description and what this dog has done to your children, as hard as it is to give him up, that parental instinct should be kicking in high gear.
 
#29 ·
"Anyway.. I have two young teenage girls and one is very attached to the dog- sleeps with Dash, hugs her etc."

Get this dog out of that bedroom and off that bed.

No more babying and hugging.

Quote "2 wks later the dog was asleep and my daughter went up to her and started hugging her and touched her paws. "

The consequences were that this startled and bit her all over her body.

BUT this was AFTER one of the children had been attacked . The dog needed to be pulled off -- she was in a different zone.

What does it take to learn to be a bit cautious .

Later this dog again attacked the same child without any provocation .

Was this child the "hugger" who sleeps with the dog .

Was this the child that the dog targeted when the dog became out of control aggressive when stressed by conflict ?

quote , "dog is very sensitive even a bit anxious"

For this very reason this dog should NEVER be bred.
If the breeder does then the motive is $$$$.

When you bought the dog how was it promoted ? Was this sensitive and anxious aspect ever mentioned, or was the dog promoted as being solid and stable ?
What "home-like" experience did the dog have , what big world socialized experience did the dog have ?
If the dog had none , neither , then there was no way the "breeder" could give any feed-back to that because he never tested or exposed the dog to situations to make any evaluation.

All homes have crazy moments . All of them.
That is why I go into lecture mode when someone contacts me for "just" a pet . That "just a pet" should have the very best of temperament and coping skills because of the emotionally loaded , hectic , spontaneous , events of normal life --- without the benefits of normal people wanting to enjoy a dog as a companion -- without being dog-savvy -- doing things with the best of intentions .

quote , "Breeder doesn't want her"
Of course he doesn't . Probably knew ----

About a year ago we had a forum member who unknowingly took in a GSD with a known bite-history that was NOT
made apparent to him.
The dog virtually immediately bit a family member , without provocation , and seriously.

This breeder had many other problems with health and temperament -- other forum members with personal experience started to network.

As far as I know there is a law suit - (or pending action) .


You can't manage the dog .

The dog and the children should never have contact with each other again.
 
#30 · (Edited)
It is heartbreaking to have to rehome a dog especially when kids are involved. So important to find the right match as if not such a troubling experience for all involved. At the same time it is not fair to your kids ,you, or the dog to continue to put the dog in this situation-where she can harm your kids. Kids and teenagers do not read a dogs body language well, so this dog is clearly not the dog for them as the dog has proven her disdain for such an act. There has been no precautions set by you as carmspack pointed out. The family pet as mentioned- is to me one of the most important jobs and the dog must be able to be stable and clear headed amongst any family chaos. The dog has proven she will react aggressively if she feels uncomfortable in the slightest. I do think this dog can be rehomed given the right situation where there are no kids and the owner is aware of the dogs history and experienced enough. Wish you the best and that you find the right dog for your family.
 
#32 ·
OP, have you had the dog evaluated by a decent trainer? Maybe the trainer can assist you in finding a new home for the dog. I know of two trainers in MA I could suggest if you need someone. One of them has a lot of connections in GSD rescue, although I don't know if she is willing to be involved with something like this due to liability issues. The only good GSD rescue I know if won't take the dog due to the history
 
#33 · (Edited)
The dog should not be re-homed. There are not enough experienced GSD homes to save every dog with temperament problems so bad that they bite children of the owner.

The dog bit the OP's kids SEVERAL times. THAT is not a normal dog.

If a kid gets a little tooth while giving a high value treat to the dog or playing tug with the dog, ok. That isn't dangerous. It is the product of living in the world. If you play football, you might sprain your knee. We can live with that.

Not every dog likes to be hugged, true. That DOESN'T mean it has the right to bite a kid all over its body. No. That isn't normal. There are enough normal dogs being put down, that we shouldn't be wasting what resources there are on dogs that bite the owners children.

Maybe Bailiff or Cliff could take this dog and keep it safely. Maybe. Have they stepped up to the plate and offered to take the dog? No. They probably have enough dogs that they do not need a project right now. They should not feel compelled to take every crazy dog out there just because someone placed a crazy dog in a family with children, who raised the dog and it's now biting the kids.

If it is biting the kids, it has to go. If it is not safe to go, it has to be put down. Everyone here that is clamoring for the dog to be rehomed, should be willing to take the dog on. If not, then maybe we should be encouraging this person to do what is responsible, and keep all the kids everywhere safe.

I know some dogs do not like being hugged. But a dog that will bite a family member for hugging it, is no good. The dog can move away, it can hide behind the couch, it can bark or even growl. It can snap, but if it bites and breaks the skin, then it doesn't belong in a home with a family.

How the dog is how it is really doesn't matter. Perfectly good dogs put up with a lot of things from family members.

My nieces are only at my house 3-4 times in a year. If any of my dogs bit them for hugging them... I just cannot see that ever happening. Not even dogs that spend most of their lives kenneled. It isn't normal. Even a bitch with puppies.
 

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#34 ·
The thing is, we have a pet for a number of reasons. We love dogs and want to share our lives with them. We want the enjoyment of having a critter that we can care for. We want to teach our kids about responsibility for God's creatures. We want to help our kids have something really special.

Having a dog biting kids is not what we have pets for.

I commend the OP for attempting to do something for the dog. Giving it back to the breeder would be ok, because if the breeder rehomed the dog without full disclosure and something awful happened, I expect he will have serious liability. But other people, unless you know them really, really well, you can't guarantee the dog will not attack another youngster.

If this just started happening, and you could find a vitimin deficiency or thyroid problem that is solvable and a reason for the aggression, and are willing to change your leadership style and get the kids on board, then maybe. Downloading the dog to other people, if you can find anyone who wants to own a dog that will bite the owner's kids, I dunno.
 
#35 ·
Ok, I feel your pain. And I did not read all the answers here, but I give you mine. You have PEVI there? You know what that means, right I would try that, before putting the dog t sleep. In my opinion, and ofcourse, I am not trainer, BUT, u can train tho habits away. For what u ust wrote, it goes right this- dog little bite- no backing or conseguence, dog bites another time-same thing- etc. Habit- tough minded gsd...
Ok, so Now I get everybody on my neck because of my opinion- dog is bad...blaablaa. yes, it is possible, but first I would try the iceage for it.
ZERO patting, zero everything. u know what I mean. New season. Write rules from a white board.
two weeks approx, no nothing. u wont pat him, u wont ask him to do anything. zero. everything what u goes, u ignore the dog, and so would youre other family members. No looking, patting, naming, asking, zero. U go to walk, just put the leash on, not saying anything and just go.

Can I ask is this PEVI just in my country, or do others know it? It works on very good with bad cases, it is like u rewrite the dog.
Ofcourse, it does not work, if u have a dog with very bad traits. but very often, bad traits also, are from people. :)

I am sorry if someone pick this up and gets angry. ;D
 
#36 · (Edited)
some dogs are just not good with kids but can make great pets in a kid free home. When a dog attacks a child, especially multiple times, it's better safe than sorry. Rather than invest your time on an uncertain outcome and put your kids at risk of being attacked again, homing your dog with experienced adults would be the safest option for your kids.

Make sure potential adopters know her issues and history, don't hide it, if someone's going to take her into their home they need to be aware of the problems and potential.

That's just my opinion. I've known people who instantly euthanized their dog for attacking kids despite being great pets when with adults, and it seems like such a shame to me. I always treat it as a potential with my dogs because any dog can be kid aggressive or fearful, if they start showing signs then limit or cut off contact (depending on severity,) but that's easy for me because they aren't MY kids.

I'm the kind of person, because I don't have kids and am experienced with aggression, who would adopt a dog with child aggression. I'm sorry people might make you feel like there's no loving home out there for your dog that could be more suitable than yours, but if you're contemplating euthanizing, then please consider giving your dog a second chance in another home.

PS: HI CHIP!!!
 
#38 ·
I'd almost agree with this if people in the US were more trustworthy. See if a dog bit my kids, since I have none, my nieces, and I found a home for that dog. If I found an adult home and told them exactly what the dog did and how the dog must not be around children.

Because even when you do not have children, you sometimes have children next door, children that visit, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, children that run up behind you in the check out and throw their arms around your dog and hug him, and then skip back to their daddy saying, "I hugged the big doggy!" (Yeah, that's a true story.)

But let's say that your management style is excellent, you practice constant vigilence in public, and you are truly child-less. And you have that dog for 5 years with nary a problem. And then life changes for you. You lose your job and have to move into your parents' basement or your job transfers you states away, and you really cannot find a place in your price-range where you can have a GSD. Or worse yet, you get into a car accident and lose the use of your legs. You find it necessary to rehome because you will be in a rehab center for a minimum of 6 months. Life happens. Sometimes death happens too. Then what?

Now, because you are responsible adult, you want to find the dog a good home that understands the kid thing. The first 16 contacts for your 7 year old dog backed away when you mentioned the kid part. And for heaven's sake the dog was young then and with a family that really maybe didn't know what they were doing. Maybe the dog doesn't have a problem. Really. Its been fine with you. And suddenly, as the situation becomes more desparate, the next call doesn't get the spiel about kids, and 3 months later some kid is in the ER, maybe lost an eye, is disfigured, needs plastic surgery.

You know, if you go through Wickipeadia's list of fatalities due to dog bites for any year, most of those dogs did not have a clean record before killing someone's kid. Most of them had a string of incidents, or a serious incident before hand. If you have a dog that you love and are willing to work with and keep every one safe from, and have the means to do so, well and good. I understand it. But if the dog is going to be re-homed, it does not have a family that truly understands the situation and loves the dog and is willing to work with it. Once you pass it to someone else, they are totally going off their impression of you and what you have said. They do not truly understand the problem. They think they do. It is a difference.

Some dude in Africa, thought he was Cesar Milan, and rehabilitates seriously aggressive dogs. Well, there he is in the mall with his "service dog" -- a rehabilitated Rottweiler, and a small child walked by the dog, did not look at it, did nothing to set it off. But off it went. It viciously attacked the little girl. We aren't talking about a peek-a-poo here, that is going to break the skin and it's going to hurt, but is very unlikely to send you to the ER for more than a tetnus shot. We are talking about a dog that can kill a human being.

If it hated all kids all the time, you might make a case for the dog, saying if you kennel the dog, and muzzle the dog, every single time it is in the vicinity of children, maybe it can be kept safely by people who do not have kids. But the dog is unpredictable. It startles when relaxed and starts biting a kid it knows well. It bites in protection of one kid, it bites the other kid that it knows well. It bites with no provacation some times and at others allows hugs and sleeps in the bed with a kid. It is a dog that someone will probably believe no longer has those problems.

It has those problems. You're just living between incidents.

I really don't want anyone to have to euthanize their dog. But the dog is either bad enough to be euthanized, or not so bad that it can be worked with. If it can be worked with, it should be worked with by the people that currently own the dog. They know what the dog is capable of. They understand the problem. If the dog is fine 99% of the time and just nipped the kid a few times, than the owner of the dog needs to work with a trainer to learn how to manage, train, govern the dog. If the dog is biting kids -- punctures, stitches and drains, bruises, ER, and it is clearly unsafe to have the dog around children, then it should be euthanized.
 
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