Help deciphering a pedigree - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Help deciphering a pedigree

As some of you know I am the very proud owner of an 8 month old all-black GSD puppy named Nyx. My understanding from the breeder (admittedly a BYB), was that she is descended from an AKC registered Sire, who is a combination of American and WGW lines, and an inner Mongolian imported Dam who is not yet registered with AKC. I'm told they are working on the Dam's AKC registration, but who knows...
At any rate, I found and joined this forum after Nyx was already 5 months old, and it's been a real eye opener relating to the importance of lineage on drives and temperament -- as well as the fact that all-black GSDs are not unheard of (I had never seen one before!)😊
Curiosity after the fact got a hold of me, so yesterday I purchased a 5-generation pedigree on the Sire...but I don't really understand what I'm seeing there. The first shocker for me was seeing so many white GSDs in his background! I'm assuming they did that primarily for size, but what do I know?! The good news is that there is indeed a lot of German ancestry also present...
But I was wondering if some of the more experienced members here, or breeders, could take a look and tell me what you see/think. Are any of you familiar with any of the dog's listed? The file is too large to upload here, but PM me and I can email it to you, or if there's a better way please let me know.
Thanks!

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 03:37 PM
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You can post the names of the sire and dam, and we can start there.

~ Diane ~

CARLY ......... Ch. Lauremi's No Reservations (AKC GCh pointed, HIC)
SCARLET ..... Lauremi's Almost Wasn't (AKC pointed)
and absent friends... SAGE ~ Lauremi's Whim Z v Jakmar ~ AKC major ptd, HIC ~ 2010-2015
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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My dog's Sire's name is Covarrubias' Bruno
AKC #: DN303297/02 06-12

His Sire is Payaso
DN095867/06 03-06
Black & Silver
AKC DNA #V421445

His Dam is Jayla
DN156463/06 05-08
Black

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-22-2017, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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I don't see anything about the Sire and Dam, but the sire's sire is Fury vom Kraftwerk
Sire Born: 11. June 2007. AKC DN13218701. And he's all German heritage with a lot of schutzund and IPO 2s and 3s. Not a bad looking mutt😊.

And the Dam also has some German heritage in Der Blau Max Von Murkastel
Sire Born: 20. December 1996

Not sure if the lack of response is due to poor breeding, or that it's Tuesday and people have dogs to play with. But again, any insights, negative or otherwise are appreciated. I could not be happier with my pup. In my mind, she measures up against the best in the breed 😊 But I certainly won't be offended if you don't think her heritage is good...just some feedback and help in understanding would be awesome. And again, thank you!

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 03:03 PM
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Tim, can you do what a poster did on this thread? It's very hard to say anything without more information.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...pedigrees.html
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-23-2017, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Unfortunately I don't have hard copies of the sire and dam' s pedigrees to take photos of, and
and the file is too large to upload here. There's no info on either of them in the pedigree db,but my dog's grandparents are there and their links are:

Search - Der Blau Max Von Murkastel

And

Fury vom Kraftwerk


Note that these are the sires of my dog's parents, the Dams are not coming up in the database for some reason, and that's a large part of my confusion. I thought in order for a dog to be registered with AKC they had to have 3 generations of verifiably registered GSDs in their immediate ancestry. But the pedigree I got for my dog's sire has lots of holes, at least in the pedigree db.

There are also a lot if white GSDs on the grandsire's background, and I'm not finding any of them listed in the db either. Is there another way to find this info?
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 12:17 AM
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White shepherds have their own section in the PDB.

The PD is not a comprehensive list of pedigrees. It is created by dog owners who choose to post their dog's pedigrees there. Recently, the DB tightened rules to make pedigrees more accurate and useful, but there are still a lot of gaps, duplicate entries and mistakes.

I like to work with pedigrees. Can you send me the info?
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I just sent you a PM.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 08:35 AM
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Have looked at this dog's pedigree, and there is quite a mixture of lines. In addition to German working lines popping up in 2 places, there are also American show lines and white german shepherds (AKC, not the Swiss lines).
There may be German show lines too, but I didn't notice any last night er...early this morning....when I was doing my research.

Unfortunately, there are very few titles to be found without going back quite a few generations. But like I said to Tim, one of the best GSD's I've ever had was a rescue, pedigree totally unknown.
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 08-24-2017, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking a look. What did, and still does, confuse me is the lack of available information. My expectation was that there would be more information available on more recent ancestors. I also ran into some czech ancestry, but as you said it's back 4 or 5 or even more generations. On the white Shepards I couldn't find much of anything, and that seemed to be about half of the grandsire's tree 🤔 In any event, she is a great dog!

One question that did come up as I was parsing her family tree, for which Google was no help at all , was some of her ancestors with an IRV prefix.
I know that AKC uses DL and DN for American GSDs, and West German working dogs have SZ prefixes. DDR is less clear, though I think it signifies Czech/Eastern Europe? But I also found IRV prefixes, and could not find anything clarifying what it stood for. Does anyone here know?

I was able to track down the kennel where the granddam was raised, and the Dam may have been born, so I'll continue on that and see what light they can she'd on the reasoning behind the breeding...if any.

Thanks again Sunsilver for taking a look.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

Tim
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