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Feeling cheated and mislead

5K views 37 replies 24 participants last post by  CelticGlory 
#1 ·
Ok i know this isnt a qaulity breeder and sure aint paying the price to match and assumed risk in regards to health issues which may or may not happen. However i placed a deposit on this girl. Shes a sable. Tonite they sent me a updated picture and need opinions on if its the same puppy. Im 100% sure its not but im new to shepherd puppies and there color changes but i dont think a sable will turn into a black and tan and the breeder said she darkened and it is the same pup. Whats your thoughts?
 

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#3 ·
Your right i dont trust the breeder when they suddenly dont look like the same puppy. I have a non refundable deposit on her so all i can do is just ride it out and get whatever she gives me at this point. Its not a matter of color although sable would have been great but its the fact of what seems like she swapped puppies and is lying
 
#4 ·
You are falling into the "sunk costs fallacy" in human reasoning. You've sunk some money (deposit) that you can't get back, so it becomes hard emotionally to walk away. Logically though, sunk costs don't really justify sinking MORE money into what you are learning may have been a bad bet.

Do some reading on this trick of the mind -- it will feel familiar (it affects nearly all of us in some way):
https://litemind.com/sunk-cost-bias/
 
#5 ·
*have a non refundable deposit on her so all i can do is just ride it out and get whatever she gives me at this point.*
You do not have to take "whatever she gives you". There is always the option of walking away. If you have this much mistrust with the breeder I absolutely would walk away and just consider the lost deposit a life lesson.

Getting a pup from a good breeder saves a lot of heartache.
 
#6 ·
Its not so much about the money aspect... I have been looking forward to having her and suddenly she doesnt even look like the same puppy. I feel betrayed and lied to and wanted opinions from experienced owners and breeders if maybe this is all a mistakw that a puppy can change like that. Color isnt the main factor but being lied to about a puppy ive made a commitment to just rubs me wrong. Id be more ok with being told the pup didnt make it or they want to keep it would i take this other over that one. Not its the same puppy it just turned black in a week and a half. Doesnt mean the puppy is no good cause of a color but dealing with a dishonest breeder is not what i intended which is why i came here for opinions before calling her out
 
#7 ·
your deposit is just a drop in the bucket compared to what it takes to maintain a GSD over their lifetime, and chump change with maintaining an unhealthy pup.

there are no bargain pups in this breed.
 
#8 ·
sounds like you already called her out and they claim it's the same pup, just darker.

you are absolutely correct in that a sable dog will never be black and tan. in the first photo, the pup is unmistakably sable. I don't know what your plans are but before any further accusations, I would at least ask for a photo of the second pup from a side angle to be positive it isn't sable (although I agree, it appears Black and Tan in the photo)

all of that said.... pups should be matched by temperment and personality, not color. 3-4 weeks is too young to identify most traits.

I would not accept a dog from this "breeder"
 
#10 · (Edited)
Stop already.

you said you put a deposit on a sable pup.

the picture you show IS a SABLE pup . They go through several changes .

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/138564-sable-color-change.html

and many other threads if you care to look.

As a breeder , I don't like the deposit on a particular pup selected at an age where they can do no more than suckle .

YOU don't know if the pup is even suitable for you .

The colour can darken that much .

Simple question what colours are the sire and dam?

You don't even have the pup and you are fretting about being
mislead and cheated.
What happens 4 months from now when the ears , which may
have been up , fall , or alternate in being erect , when teething?
 
#11 ·
Buying any pup sight unseen at a early age you cannot say what confirmation or flaws or future health problems he or she may have. Buying a puppy from non ofa or health tested parents puts the puppy at higher risk for all the above. Which i knew those risks. Ive been in rescue, trainer, groomer and started school for vet tech. Im not a newbie to animals. I took this risk based upon this being local breeder with beautiful parents and she was going to be a family companion. But after said breeder all the sudden sends me photos of a puppy i do not believe would change in a week and a half to a black and tan and just tells me oh she darkened they all did. It makes me question why? Why not be honest and ask if i would take her instead for whatever reasons. I guess im old fashioned and think people are honest and should do dealings as honest as possible. So this got under my skin. How they could think they could swap pups and just tell me its the same puppy. I just wanted to simply ask if at all possible could a sable (yes they can darken) would change to what appears to be a black and tan. since i am not a breeder i just wanted clarification before making a final decision. Its not about color of a pet puppy at all i want to stress that. Id be fine with a blk and tan however this breeder is being dishonest and that is what gets to me.
 
#18 · (Edited)
exactly , armed with little information, stating that this isn't a quality breeder , (so why the heck initiate anything), and already going to an emotional feeling "cheated and mislead" ---

You are entering a relationship with the breeder for the next 10 years .
There is going to be dissatisfaction and suspicion everytime an ear drops , or the dog may have a touch of pano .

so is the thinking going to be -- The "other one" , the one I really wanted wouldn't have this going on - I got the defect . They knew it and I deliberately got the lemon.

The pup , the suspected "substitution" is the subject of
all this negativity and will feel it .

You're not good from the beginning.

Not with the dog . Not with the breeder .

So why?

Not worth it . Not for the breeder .

When the coat changes when the pup is around 12 to 14 weeks and has a dark black ring around its tail , are you going suspect
that the breeder has driven by and exchanged pups again?

Sables change colour - dramatically sometimes . A pup may be brownish and fuzzy - then darken and then at 12 weeks look like a fawn colour , shed that out , and be a different dark grey . Sables change .

If both parents are sable , there are no black and tans .

For your mental peace and quiet - go somewhere else.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Don't you worry! She's the same puppy. Like human children ( baby looked like her dad when she was born, but in three months she looks like her grandma) young dogs may quickly go through changes in their appearance especially their coat. Then, why should you worry at all? Are you intended to breed dogs for their coat colour, for dog shows, etc? Coat colour doesn't affect GSD qualities or health. Though, if you doubt so badly - make sure that your puppy has the same parents. The best thing - to see her with her mother. Insist on it with the breeder. All in all, you should have seen your chosen at least twice before you decided to pay full price. If her mother doesn't want to be with her, doesn't protect from you in some way - then she is not her puppy, but was borrowed from some other litter in order to sell. It doesn't happen with pedigree dogs, professional breeder will microchip all puppies regardless of their future in the day they were
born, at least that is true for Britain.
 
#19 ·
I was able to watch my sable pup Flyn and his 3 siblings grow from birth (2 black, 2 sable) because I used his breeders property a couple times a week for training practices with my 2 year old. The two sables, Flyn and his sister were born different colors. He was more caramel colored with some black and she was a little darker. I was shocked at how quickly the female sable changed her coloring. From one week to the next she darkened tremendously and had bits of tan appeared around her ears and hind legs. I remember saying to the breeder had I not watched her grow I would have thought she was a different pup. Truly she looked totally different in such a short time.
 
#20 ·
Im just going to add to much of the same and say that yes a sable pup. Max from 4 weeks to 6 weeks huge changes he looked like a black and tan at 6 weeks and totally different when we picked him up. He still lightens and darkens. Look in sable color changes on this forum. Little knowledge can lend itself to paranoia so you can always do something about it. German shepherd pups whether be a Black and Tan, sable, or bi color is one breed that will constantly change and only have an idea what they may look like as an a adult.
 
#21 ·
Carmen is right - they change - they are dark, light, dark, really really light!!! and then get their adult color....it is REALLY hard to predict what depth of pigment (how dark) a sable will be when it is just a baby!!!! I get lots of people who insist they want a "black sable" and there is just no way with my breedings I can be sure to produce really dark sables in every pup....and at 4-8 weeks, they look like that pup in the photo!


That being said - making a firm commitment to a specific baby out of a litter is ridiculous - neither the breeder nor you have any idea of what this pup's personality will be - even at 8 weeks it can be tough, but a breeder SHOULD have some idea of each pup's personality.

Lee
 
#22 ·
This is the parents. which i really liked both of them. I loved the bi colored father and the standard mother and when originally looking and found these guys 30 miles away and the price was reasonable so i took the risk. Never met any pups or parents in person. Im in the south and thats just how people do it around here. Breed for profit. people do it everywhere but this state is really bad. I just felt like this breeder was being dishonest and thats why i asked if it could be the same puppy. When the ad went up she sold all the pups within a hour. The reason i was on the defensive is because i knew the risk of future health buying one without parents being health tested and didnt want to be thrown in the fire by doing so. In rescue we got pures and mixes and each of there own had health issues some worse then others. From genetic defects to common health problems to emergancies. I have a $2,500 terrier who spent weeks in the vet office. My mother bought her shepherd years ago and delt with a severe form of Hip
Dysplasia. I think not to offend breeders at all. Everyone says health tested dogs wont have health problems and thats false. The parents may not have problems themself but it could run in there bloodline. Reputable breeders do there best to research lines to lesson that risk even more but mother nature is going to have her way. But ive got alot to think about to see if i continue or walk with this breeder and i appreciate everyones feedback
 

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#24 ·
No disrespect intended, but you keep focusing on color and genetic health defects while ignoring that much of temperament is hereditary to the degree that some breeders believe that genetics make up to 90% of temperament with the remaining 10% being enhanced or suppressed by raising and training. If you are looking for a family companion, especially if you have children, IMO you should focus less on health and color and more on the parent's temperaments. You can live with a dog if it is black and tan, or if it has hip dysplasia, but a dog with human or dog aggression can be tough to pull off especially around children.

I know this does not address your issue with trusting this breeder, but finding a right fit for your family should be more important. Few people rehome a dog due to health or color, but way too many dogs are left at shelters because they don't mesh behaviorally with the family's needs.
 
#23 ·
could not see the original photos well on phone and now on computer

I do NOT think those are the same puppies - the first photo IS a sable...the second has eyebrows and is probably a black and tan.....the photo of the parents look to be both black and tans - one a blanket back and the other a very very light pigmented saddle back....

NOW the mother - one who looks pregnant - COULD ---COULD!!!! - be a patterned sable.....COULD BE! hard to say with that small and poor quality photo.....

I don't think this person is forthright and totally honest - perhaps you better look a bit further - and save a bit of money to buy from someone reputable


Lee
 
#26 · (Edited)
I can't tell if the puppy is the same or not, but if it were me, I would trust my instincts. I would rather support the breeding practices of someone I trust. If you suspect the breeder is lying about this, what else might he or she be lying about? I know it would be hard to walk away (not only with the loss of the deposit, but also having grown fond of the thought of a puppy and now having to wait, renew the search, ect). How much are you willing to pay? You might be able to find a breeder who at the minimum health tests their dogs, and has females you can meet, for a reasonable price? I know in my search for a puppy, I saw breeders that I wouldn't necessary recommend as the best, but probably had lower prices, and at least did OFA's on their breeding stock. I agree with MineAreWorkingLine as well...temperament is so important. A spooky or aggressive dog can really complicate life fast.
 
#28 ·
YEP!!! ^^^

Please do not support a possible back yard breeder just b/c "Im in the south and that's just how people do it around here. Breed for profit." :eek: :cry: :eek:
Noooooooooo!!!!!!!:shocked:

There are such KNOWLEDGEABLE people on here like Carmen, Wolfstrum and many others who can point you to a reputable breeder.

What state are you in?

Moms:)
 
#33 ·
I'm sorry. Brain not working well right now.

Can you even get a sable puppy from two black and tan parents? I'm thinking no, in which case the breeder lied about the parents of at least the first pup.

There is no reason to settle for a poorly bred dog just because of your location. Shipping is fairly easy, contacting GSD clubs for breeder recommendations in your area is easy.

Temperament and health are the most important things for a family pet. Temperament especially for a family with children (and children's friends visiting). There's no excuse for taking the easy way out and disregarding this most important consideration. Color doesn't matter. A good dog can't be a bad color.
 
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