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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Question intelligence

They say the border collie and standard poodle are the only smarter canines do you guys agree? I have met many of each, they are very smart dogs, but they seem about the same as the gsd not really smarter.


Do you notice a change in smarts between lines? like show vs working? just curious. I just get a bit shocked at how smart my girl is sometimes specially compared to my old male. Kinda scares me like shes an alien or something lol
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:17 PM
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They do not say they are the "only smarter" canines. They are listed as the top two in intelligence. I believe the German Shepherd is 3rd.



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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:42 PM
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The study you're talking about is pretty well known. Basically they took various breeds (not sure how many of each one) and tried to teach them tricks. The intelligence was measured based on how many repetitions it took for the dogs to be successful and "know" the trick based on a percentage of success.

I don't believe meeting single dogs proves anything except the amount of training they have had. You might meet a BC or poodle that have not had much training and think they're not that bright, but then meet a very well trained dog and think they're smarter.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:44 PM
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I truly believe it is a factor of two things: what the owner considers intelligence and the individual dog (not necessarily the breed).

I believe my husky is way more intelligent than my GSD. But huskies sometimes don't even make the list in terms of intelligence...Smokey even now being 5 years old picks up tricks with minimal repetition; whether he chooses to obey or not is a different story. Zeeva knows far fewer commands than Smokey and it takes effort to get her to attempt a new command. She simply stares at me with confused eyes...
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
The study you're talking about is pretty well known. Basically they took various breeds (not sure how many of each one) and tried to teach them tricks. The intelligence was measured based on how many repetitions it took for the dogs to be successful and "know" the trick based on a percentage of success.

I don't believe meeting single dogs proves anything except the amount of training they have had. You might meet a BC or poodle that have not had much training and think they're not that bright, but then meet a very well trained dog and think they're smarter.
agreed. 3rd factor is training C:
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 03:09 PM
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Martenchik, can you link that study? I've never heard of it.

The commonly refered to list of breeds ranked by 'intelligence', comes for a book by Stanley Coren, "The Intelligence of dogs".

The list did not come from any specific studies, but from a survey of people involved in dog training/show judging industry. Mr. Coren sent out several hundred questionaires asking people to rank the breeds by intelligence, and constructed his list from the returned information.

I think there was a lot of concensus about the most intelligent breeds, and also the least intelligent breeds - but it still reflects people's opinions and their subjective experience. It was not based on any type of standarized test. Here is a partial list if people are curious about it:

THE INTELLIGENCE OF DOGS

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 03:30 PM
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What is intelligence? The ability to learn a trick? The ability to get out of learning the stupid trick and get the dumb human to do what the dog wants instead? The ability to think independently and solve problems? The ability to learn and remember a lot of words?


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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoore View Post
What is intelligence? The ability to learn a trick? The ability to get out of learning the stupid trick and get the dumb human to do what the dog wants instead? The ability to think independently and solve problems? The ability to learn and remember a lot of words?

Good questions! Is a dog that learns quickly but needs to be prompted all the time smarter than one that learns slower but are solid once they learn it?



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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 03:57 PM
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I think the dog that learns quickly is more intelligent ... and smart enough to realize 'oh yeah, done that .. borrrrring'.

Varik has learned many things when he was shown or I shaped it .. once. Never needed repetitions to learn these things. He doesn't seem to forget it, but now the 'umm I will do it if you make it worth my while' comes into play. He's not really biddable (we have discussions about it) and oh so immature still.

Xan Varik von Fernheim (born 4/3/13)
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2014, 04:01 PM
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Exactly! There is no clear definition for what is considered intelligence in that ranking. It's been a while since I read the book, but I believe that the majority of people polled for the list where AKC/CKC (Canadian) Obedience Judges. So the ranking was based on the breeds that were the most successful overall in the obedience ring - so to me, this is a ranking of trainability, and willingness to please - great asset in any dog, but not what I would define as intelligence.

To me intelligence has more to do with independent thinking, and problem solving.

For example, Gryffon is right up there with trainability and willingness to please. His problem solving is also very impressive. Keeta is very independent, and does need quite a few more repetitions to learn something than Gryffon does. But when she wants something, she plans things out in a manner that amazes me.

Example: Gryffon has a bone. Keeta wants it. Not cool to just take the bone, so she has a plan. She picks up the first thing she finds ( a piece of paper), and lays down a few feet away from Gryffon and starts playing with this piece of paper. She is fully focused on it, bats it around, throws it up in the air and watches it drift down, pounces on it, etc . . . Gryff is watching out of the corner of his eye, and curiosity overcomes him. He stands up leaving his bone behind to go investigate what this great toy is. As soon as he moves away from the bone, Keeta pounces and grabs it.

Now tell me that isn't intelligence??

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