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post #1 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Is that Legal?

Through Jessie I came across this Pit Bull Forum and the stuff I'm reading is absolutely shocking. Half the time I can't believe the "Believes" some people have.

Apparently the most important trait a pit bull has to have is gameness. Meaning that even if the dog is facing death, he's got to keep going and can't give up. So the natural trait of dogs "flight" does not exist. I asked if that is what we refer as hardness to, but apparently it's not hardness, it's more than that. It's that the dog lays down his life in order to fight until death.

Anyhow, since dog fighting is illegal and you can't test the "Gamness" anymore, it seems like some people have gotten creative to go around that. Instead of dogs, they fight Hogs, Racoons, even Bears... as "Game Hounds".

Now here is my question. Is that LEGAL? Is it really legal to take your dog hunting hogs?

And if it is. What do you think about these practices of testing the "gamness" of a dog in a manner like that? It kind of defeats the purpose of making dog fights illegal when there are still ways to go around and have them fight Hogs instead... isn't it? I can't even comprehend the brutality of that, yet for some reason it's fascinating to dig into the history of the breed. However, I just don't understand why you would risk your dog getting killed just to test their "gameness".

Last edited by Mrs.K; 02-20-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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post #2 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 11:54 AM
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Yes just as it legal to take coonhounds hunting coon and terriers hunt vermin all of which have risks to the dog as well. I don't think many hunting dogs of these kind are necessarily beloved family pets. Wild hogs are a real problem in some areas. I think normally the human makes the kill and the hog dogs (who wear kevlar vests) locate and hold the hogs at bay.

Is killing game necessariliy the same as killing your own species? I don't think so.

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post #3 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
Yes just as it legal to take coonhounds hunting coon and terriers hunt vermin all of which have risks to the dog as well. I don't think many hunting dogs of these kind are necessarily beloved family pets. Wild hogs are a real problem in some areas. I think normally the human makes the kill and the hog dogs (who wear kevlar vests) locate and hold the hogs at bay.

Is killing game necessariliy the same as killing your own species? I don't think so.
From what I understood the dogs are not wearing kevlar vests at all. One dog has been killed by going after a bear.

It's not so much the practice but the sentiment behind it. Dog Fighting is illegal but there are still ways going around it to "match" the dogs by having them fight hogs.

I just can't seem to find anything "sporty" in something like that. I know my dog could get killed in SAR as well but it's a real purpose and not because I sent her against a hog just to test her "gameness".

Fighting a hog is just as brutal as a dog fight, if not even more dangerous. Personally, I don't make a difference between dogs or hogs. Both are living beings and it's as brutal as it can get. They should die as quickly as possible.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 02-20-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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post #4 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:08 PM
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I can't comment on testing "gameness" or any of that, but as to boar hunting, you might read through this page:

Boar hunting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Specifically about the two different types of dogs:
Quote:
Boar hunting dogs are loosely divided into two categories, bay dogs, and catch dogs. Bay dogs harass and harry the boar, keeping it cornered in one place and barking loudly. This behaviour is known as "baying" or keeping the boar "at bay". The bay dogs' barking alerts the hunters to the bay, so that the hunter may catch up and kill the boar. Sometimes the boar is tied up to be killed and cleaned later, as the meat of a dead boar goes bad very quickly. Bay dogs are typically Cur dogs such as the Leopard Cur, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Blackmouth Cur, Blue Lacy, Catahoula and trailing scent hounds such as the Walker Hound,[4] Foxhound, Plott Hound, and the Berner Niederlaufhund.

Catch dogs grip the boar with their jaws, typically seizing the base of the boar's ear. Once they have the boar, they will hold it down by the head until the hunter arrives. The hunter then comes in from behind and kills the boar with a knife or spear. Catch dogs are typically "Bully" breeds such as the American Bulldog, American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier and other molossers such as the Boxer, Bullmastiff, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Dogue de Bordeaux, Great Dane, Neapolitan Mastiff, English Mastiff and smaller Mastiff crosses.

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post #5 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:39 PM
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Even though it is illegal you still have "old timers" "matching" dogs.
What happens in the backwoods stays in the backwoods

Until you get big bad HSUS on your tail.
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post #6 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:45 PM
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I think whether it's legal is going to depend on the area and it has very little to do with the "backwoods".

Some people had the bright idea to bring wild hogs into areas local to them so they could hunt them. Unfortunately, they brought back BOTH sexes and they breed very, very quickly. Hogs are nasty, mean, destructive animals so they have quickly turned into a problem.



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post #7 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:49 PM
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Well, they aren't doing it on street corners.

And yes, much of the "matching" is done in the thick cover of woods. Sorry if that word has negative connotations for you.

Here they have rooster-fights (figured the other word would trigger censorship) in the thick of hops fields and other heavy vegetative cover. That's illegal here too.
Dog fighting is illegal in all 50 states, and I believe rooster-fights are as well.
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post #8 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 12:50 PM
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Before the shift of a large population of humans living in cities and suburbs and making dogs exclusively their pets, people bred dogs for specific purposes. Having lived in suburbs growing up, living in the country for many years now and having Appalachian origins that I keep in touch with, I am able to balance and understand those two cultures. Though I personally would not let my dogs hunt boar or bear because I think of them as small extended family members, I don't begrudge those who have not shifted into urbanized culture. Boars are not native to America and have done some real damage in some areas. I have relatives that live amongst bears, and though they seldom have problems, if bears lose their fear of man they become a real danger. A cousin of mine was driving once in West Virginia and slowed down for a bear standing in the median, and it attacked her car. No joke. Right on I-64/77. My brother-in-law's worst fear with his coonhounds was that a coon would get one to water, where a coon can and will drown a dog. Studies in Indiana correlating the steep rise in rabies conclude a large factor is fewer people hunting coons. Another relative of mine living in Oakland, Maryland makes jokes that when they created the state of West Virginia, the residents of western Maryland often wish they'd annexed Maryland's mountain region into it, because they are controlled by the suburbs of Washington DC of eastern Maryland, who have no clue what living in the mountains requires. Now some people will say that we (mankind) encroach upon the natural world. But most people who actually live in the "natural world" consider themselves just another part of it. While urban people often find rural people's use of dogs actively working (and the risks that come with it) horrendeous, rural people find that the thousands of dogs scooped up quietly from the city streets and euthanized just as horrific. I don't judge either culture because I know why both do what they do.
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post #9 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 01:02 PM
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msvette2u - it amazes me how you can say such stereotypical, offensive things and then turn it around on ppl that call you on it. Would you be offended is someone lumped ppl from the city into "what happens in the ghetto stays in the ghetto"?

Dog fighting is illegal.

Using dogs to hunt hogs is not illegal in all 50 states. Look it up. City people from street corners come to the backwoods to hunt. I've never seen a hog on a street corner so that might be why 'they aren't doing it on street corners'



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post #10 of 319 (permalink) Old 02-20-2012, 01:04 PM
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Just to be clear, Mrs.K- are you saying that people are capturing a wild boar and literally putting it in a ring with a dog and betting on the outcome- not dog fighting per se, but a dog fighting a wild animal for profit? In my opinion, that is very much different than a hunter using dogs to bay or catch boar.

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