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post #1 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Are we in danger?

A topic for thought and discussion:
Are we here in the US in danger of following the current trends in the E.U. regarding "animal cruelty" laws?
Will the e-collar be banned?
Will Dobermans look like a coonhound?
Will "stick-hits" be banned from dog-sport?
Etc. Etc.?

So the question is.....Can it happen here? Opinions? Discussion?


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post #2 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:27 PM
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Re: Are we in danger?

Great questions..Let's see the comments, I'm all ears here

Musa

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Laila Pester-ella (the evil minpin) DOB:11/2007



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post #3 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are we in danger?

Valium,
You are in Turkey, which is an E.U. canidate country. Correct? Are you seeing these kinds of laws implemented there?


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post #4 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:51 PM
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Re: Are we in danger?

Dobermans look like coonhounds?

I'm looking at one with floppy ears right now. Less intimidating looking? Yes. Coonhound? uhh...no.

What is the purpose for cropping the ears of dobie's and boxers? Is there a practical purpose to it? Or is it just "cool"?

I'm pretty sure it's illegal in PA and I only know of one vet in 60 mile radius that will do it.



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post #5 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are we in danger?

You don't think they look like coonhounds with long, floppy ears and a long tail? I think they bear a resemblance; maybe it is just me.

The practical reason for cropping the ears (and docking the tail for that matter), as I understand it (someone please correct me if I am mistaken) is that when they engage a person the person is less able to grab their ears or tail in an effort to fight back. I am a GSD guy though so if this incorrect please correct me.

I am unsure if cropping ears is illegal in PA. If it is do you see a problem with this?


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post #6 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 08:09 PM
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Re: Are we in danger?

A little because of the coloring but otherwise no. Their heads are slimmer, bodies sleaker, legs are longer, movement is different.

Boxers are large game hunting dogs so that theory of someone grabbing their ears wouldn't fly. It might be that they didn't want their ears hurt while hunting? I'll have to look up the reasons. I wonder if it's not a German thing. Boxers, Dobies, Rotties....all German.

I had Banshee's ears cropped and swore I'd never do it again. We have no reason to since we don't show.

I think e-collars are misunderstood and have been abused. They should not be outlawed. Maybe they should only be sold by licensed individuals so at least a person gets some input and training?

Cropped ears? If there is no practical purpose then yes it should be illegal. But realistically, until the show people, the AKC, etc say enough is enough...it won't happen here.

I don't think we need more animal cruelty laws. I think there needs to be harsher punishment. In PA, a person can be not allowed to own an animal for a year. So they can starve, beat, burn, torture...and in a year they can do it again. Maybe a higher sentence and a little jail time would deter people a bit more.



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post #7 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 08:31 PM
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Re: Are we in danger?

Ear Cropping - I can't find a practical purpose for modern day dogs having their ears cropped. If it were a police dog that would be in danger of a criminal grabbing it's ears or if there was a medical benefit for it then I would say yes but I just can't find any justification for it at the moment.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Doberman-Ear...s-it-necessary
http://dobermanpuppyforsale.com/ears.htm
http://www.helium.com/items/1144967-...g-ear-cropping
http://www.terrificpets.com/articles.../ear-cropping/



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post #8 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are we in danger?

OK. I am not suggesting that they are coonhounds...let's not get caught up in semantics. Please do look up the reasons for cropping/docking, I am curious to know.

Back to the real issues now.

So you would recommend that e-collars only be sold to "licensed" persons? Who would determine who is qualified to own an e-collar? How much would a "license" cost? I think when you start heading down that road the slope get real slippery really quickly.

I have to also disagree about cropping ears (or docking tails for that matter). While my breed (GSD) does not require either procedure, I believe that when you open that door there is no closing it. Additionally, even if it is "purely cosmetic" what gives a government the ability to legislate this? What is next? Banning breast implants (in people) because it is "purely cosmetic"?

My biggest arguement against what you are saying is that it is a slippery slope. Would I like to see people who starve a dog to death or set a dog on fire sent to prison? The answer is YES! (Actually I would like to see worse than that) But the problem comes when politicians, who know nothing about dogs or training, attempt to make laws about what constitutes abuse. Am I "abusing" my dog when I make forced retrieves? Should I be put in the same catagory as people who set dogs on fire if I use a riding crop to make faster sits?


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post #9 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 08:48 PM
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Re: Are we in danger?

Welll...I wasn't caught up in semantics. You asked a question and I answered. I didn't realize it was rhetorical.

No. I do not think it is a slippery slope. I can make a rational decision to have breast implants with all the risks known. dogs can not make that decision. Would you have your ears cropped? Would you crop your child's ears? When there was no practical purpose or medical advantage? Their ears are being amputated and it's painful. That's apples for apples...

In the few minutes I had I could find no valid reason for ear cropping modern day dogs. Working dogs..Yes. Hunting dogs...Yes. It will prevent injury. but the average dog? No.

I don't have the answer on who should sell the electronic collar. There is no short supply of idiots so even with a licensed seller there is no guarantee that it will be used as intended. If that were true then people would not be murdered with guns.

The problem is the politicians making the laws...that is a very, very slippery slope. Not only them but people will never agree on what is abuse and what isn't. I had a man attack me at 7am in the morning because my dog was in my car when I ran in to get dog food. It was NOT hot out but he scared the [heck] out of me enough that I was getting ready to let him meet my dog who was not fond of yelling men. There will always be sicko's, radical's and morons...not much you can do.



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post #10 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-16-2009, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are we in danger?

Jax,

So what you are saying with regards to cropping ears is that it is no longer necessary for dobies because they are no longer "working dogs"? Sadly, I believe you may be correct.


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