Getting bullied at the dog park - Page 5 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #41 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 07:39 PM
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" quite obviously getting distressed when being bullied by these dogs time and time again. "

I'd be quite tempted to use a little pepper spray on these dogs....

So I have heard that you are supposed to stand between the aggressor dogs and the puppy, wave a stick, roar at them and run them off. This is what a pack leader does.

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post #42 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 07:49 PM
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What has worked for us so far is to firmly blow a referee whistle off and on, as soon as I see the wrong intention in the bully, while standing tall, facing the bully, looking strict and Deja behind me. I have her recall-trained by this sound so it is only positive for her. So far all of these dogs hesitated and I told them : "GO HOME!!!!!" while pointing where that is.These situations occur on beaches and on forest trails as I have had it with dog parks for quite some time now.
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post #43 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SitkatheGSD View Post
Thanks. I will definitely take this advice and NOT put Sitka in environments where he needs to go into defense mode. That's exactly what I'm training him not to do. I want him to be indifferent to dogs 90% of the time, and open to safe fair play in the appropriate 10% of the time remaining.

I often hear/read of the genetic basis for courage - weak nerved or solid. I really, really don't think Sitka is weak nerved. I'm very new to all of this, but as I've read on here and elsewhere, Sitka does not seem to be weak nerved. He stayed at the breeder's until 4 months old, so he was understandable sheltered an nervous when I brought him to the big bad city. But since then he has traveled all over the country, only showing fear to 2 things: bully dogs in dog parks, and baths at the groomers.

His dad was a 90lb solid black working line, who challenged a black bear in the woods of Vancouver Island and came back with a mouth full of fur. His mom was a 55lb 1/2 working line, 1/2 show line. As far as I know she never met a black bear.

I met only 1 of Sitka's littermates who was an extremely hyper active, boisterous male. He literally sat on Sitka when Sitka laid on his back for a belly rub upon meeting me. As I said, the other 4 or 5 males in the litter would all pick on Sitka as a baby, and I wonder if that's part of where his fearfulness comes from.

Eventually, I'd like to put Sitka in Shutzhund training, but not until he's built up some more confidence.

My original question, about why Sitka was being targeted has been answer: he comes across as nervous and is an easy target. Like the friendly shy kid who keeps getting bullied because he's just too darn friendly. Now, how do we instill confidence in that little shy kid? How do I make stop Sitka from being the victim, and so preventing the need for defensiveness.
It sounds like Sitka was the subordinate of the littler. Not that that's a bad thing but it would explain a lot. I think you just need to keep him away from other dogs except his 2 friends. Let him grow up using look at me therapy. A 10 month old puppy does not need to be a macho dude.
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post #44 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:01 PM
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My Inga at 18 months met a black bear in the yard. I held her back by the collar as she walked forward on her hind legs ferociously barking like I have none I have never heard. She was in defense but I did not let her loose on the bear, I held her back because 1. It would have made her do into avoidance at a young age 2. It might have gotten her killed.
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post #45 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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My Inga at 18 months met a black bear in the yard. I held her back by the collar as she walked forward on her hind legs ferociously barking like I have none I have never heard. She was in defense but I did not let her loose on the bear, I held her back because 1. It would have made her do into avoidance at a young age 2. It might have gotten her killed.
It's a scary situation that I definitely do not want to get into! The Breeder's daughters were walking Sitka's dad off leash in the trails near their house when they saw the black bear. The dog ran at the bear, and the daughters went home, assuming the worst - that the bear had got the dog (Odvaha Twelve Gauge is his name). They were all shocked when the Odvaha met up with them later on the trail with a mouth full of bear fur
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post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SitkatheGSD View Post

My original question, about why Sitka was being targeted has been answer: he comes across as nervous and is an easy target. Like the friendly shy kid who keeps getting bullied because he's just too darn friendly. Now, how do we instill confidence in that little shy kid? How do I make stop Sitka from being the victim, and so preventing the need for defensiveness.
Not all dogs will defend themselves even when mature. Why don't you just love him for who he is? What is wrong with a big, lovable doofus that chooses not to fight with dogs? Do you even have any idea as to what a wonderful gift that is? You can take this dog any where and have a blast with him without worries! Have you ever owned a dog reactive dog or a dog aggressive dog? You know the kind, the one you choose to leave at home in the crate because you just don't want to deal with constantly looking over your shoulder for other dogs when you go out?

Your pup needs your love and support, not your disappointment. He has done nothing wrong, sometimes expectations need to be adjusted.

You can't stop other dogs from targeting him but you can be his best friend and have his back. Sometimes the priority lies in having a good relationship with your dog.

Time itself is a very powerful component of learning. So learn to wait. Learn to forgive. Learn to backup. It's all necessary for learning.

Teach! Teach! Teach! Be fair to your dog!
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post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Not all dogs will defend themselves even when mature. Why don't you just love him for who he is? What is wrong with a big, lovable doofus that chooses not to fight with dogs? Do you even have any idea as to what a wonderful gift that is? You can take this dog any where and have a blast with him without worries! Have you ever owned a dog reactive dog or a dog aggressive dog? You know the kind, the one you choose to leave at home in the crate because you just don't want to deal with constantly looking over your shoulder for other dogs when you go out?

Your pup needs your love and support, not your disappointment. He has done nothing wrong, sometimes expectations need to be adjusted.

You can't stop other dogs from targeting him but you can be his best friend and have his back. Sometimes the priority lies in having a good relationship with your dog.
You're absolutely right. What I love most about Sitka, and the reason I picked him, is because of his lovingness and his gentle, sweet disposition. I am not at all disappointed in him, and I feel awful if that's what came across. It's more that I feel bad, and worried, for him as he always gets picked on. If a dog is going to get aggressive, its against Sitka. I don't know how many times I've heard "awww, my dog is so nice. I don't know why he's being mean to your dog".

You're right. Expectations need to be adjusted. I am focussing my attention now on building my relationship with Sitka, so that he knows I always have his back.

"a big, lovable doofus: is exactly what I love about him
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post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Do you even have any idea as to what a wonderful gift that is? You can take this dog any where and have a blast with him without worries! Have you ever owned a dog reactive dog or a dog aggressive dog? You know the kind, the one you choose to leave at home in the crate because you just don't want to deal with constantly looking over your shoulder for other dogs when you go out? .
No, I haven't owned a dog reactive dog. Before I had Sitka, I had a English Bulldog puppy from 8 weeks - 1 year ; she wouldn't even lift her head when we came in The closest she came to 'reactive' was rolling over when another dog came near.

I am very, very grateful to have a loving, friendly GSD for who aggression is not an issue.

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post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SitkatheGSD View Post

"a big, lovable doofus: is exactly what I love about him
I am glad you recognized the affection with which that was said.

Time itself is a very powerful component of learning. So learn to wait. Learn to forgive. Learn to backup. It's all necessary for learning.

Teach! Teach! Teach! Be fair to your dog!
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post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2017, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
I think maybe you should take some time to learn about defense drives in dogs before encouraging people to allow their puppies to defend themselves...


Schutzhund Village

Look at ALL of those factors that have to be taken into consideration before letting a dog get into defensive drive safely.
I see nothing at all in the quoted description that differs from what I said...though I admit they were more eloquent in their summary. But I do believe strongly that a puppy at 7 months of age defending itself against another puppy IS VERY DIFFERENT than asking that puppy to defend itself against a threatening human. And that is why defense against a threatening human is only introduced after the dog is at least 15 or more months old, and even then requires a helper that can read the dog well and not press him too far. But it's really an apples and oranges comparison!

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
The confidence a dog has is largely genetic and hormonal driven. They either have it at birth or they don't.
This is just absolutely wrong. If this were true, why would anyone work on building a dog's confidence? Confidence building is an integral part of Schutzhund and LE and PP training. Puppies are very carefully nurtured in a controlled
environment to build their confidence...before carefully introducing defense no, I thought you made this point yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
Get a good pup and be an idiot about pushing it's defensive boundaries and you get a mess of a dog with psych problems. < I've seen that scenario play out time and time again. By people who willing push their dogs into defense and by people who accidentally let stuff happen.
We can surely agree to disagree, but I think it's interesting how some folks get away with being outright rude in this forum. I don't think it's really necessary...

It is important to note that I never said, nor did I intend for ANYONE to interpret what I said to mean, that you should take your puppy and force it to defend itself in the mayhem @voodoolamb or @wolfy dog have witnessed at their dog park. My experience at my local dog park has been mostly positive. Most owners are not clueless idiots, and most dogs are not savage bullies. I also never said that taking a dog to play with other dogs is a requirement for building confidence in a puppy, or that anyone should just abandon their puppy anywhere. I do believe however, that your dog will not learn to effectively interact with other dogs from you...that requires other dogs

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. Mark Twain

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