Obsessed with Cats. - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 01:53 AM
Master Member
 
thegooseman90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 774
Haha we may get along after all chip. But with 15 years dealing with dogs around live stock and other pets you don't want ate I have yet to see one "treated" into leaving an animal alone. And at the end of the day tho we may disagree there's not much difference between a hand and a collar.
thegooseman90 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 02:31 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
Haha we may get along after all chip. But with 15 years dealing with dogs around livestock and other pets you don't want ate I have yet to see one "treated" into leaving an animal alone. And at the end of the day tho we may disagree there's not much difference between a hand and a collar.
The treats and distraction ... is not an approach I recommend or use but if you do a search by and large, cat in the box, baby gates, distractions, escape routes and treats, is what you find.

The hands on approach, most likely ... yes it can be done by some, I don't doubt that but most first time dog owners that were formerly cat people ... simply can't do that. Nor for the most part could they use a "SLL as a DDC." So options for corrections start to get reduced??? But anyone if they are willing could use a "Bonker." Or under the right circumstances with the right dog and the time, ... training "Place" and use a "PC" which pretty much takes the interpretations of "Corrections" off the table and one would correct the dog for breaking Place. But you can't chase a dog down to try and "PC" him if you've messed up and the dog is in hot pursuit of a cat. Or of course an expensive E-Collar for Cat and Dog issues is also a relatively simple solution.

But livestock you say ... that's interesting???
Chip18 is offline  
post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 02:39 AM
Master Member
 
thegooseman90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 774
The only real disagreement I had with you was using place or a crate to restrict the dogs movement in favor of the cats. Whatever corrections the op chooses is on him and has to be based on his and his dogs needs.

But yea originally I grew up with hunting dogs and we also raised cattle, horses, and lots of chickens. Because of the distance between me and the dog the e collar was about the easiest but other ways worked just fine too. OPs situation is a little different because most of the time it was dogs we had from pups and we can all agree it is way easier to break that type of habit in a pup. But if I used stronger corrections than what may be politically correct it's because two things. My safety or the dogs safety relied on it and they absolutely had to do what was asked. They could get trampled by the livestock or a bunch of other stuff could go wrong and lead to one of us being hurt.
thegooseman90 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 03:42 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
The only real disagreement I had with you was using place or a crate to restrict the dogs movement in favor of the cats. Whatever corrections the op chooses is on him and has to be based on his and his dogs needs.
LOL well I suppose that's a fundamental disagreement in approach ... "No Free Roaming??" Lesson learned from "Rocky" and high "Rank Drive" issues. You can't control a dog if you don't where they are?? Dominate Dog one vs apparently Dominate Dog two ... who knew??? Outside is for play inside is to chill ... pretty much that simple ,if people want to interpret that as "mean." Then they are free to do so. No Free Roaming works for Dogs and it works with Cat's. You can't control a dog if you don't know where he is??? I tried that ... it did not work out for me but as they say "your results may vary."

But I did take note of the fact that most of the Youtube clips showed "Golden, labs or some other semi placid breed or dog" that did not give a pretty clear indication of intent to do harm. If the OP is content with where there dog is ... that's fine by me. My advise is by and large for those that are not willing to settle for "Good Enough."




Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
But yea originally I grew up with hunting dogs and we also raised cattle, horses, and lots of chickens. Because of the distance between me and the dog the e collar was about the easiest but other ways worked just fine too. OPs situation is a little different because most of the time it was dogs we had from pups and we can all agree it is way easier to break that type of habit in a pup. But if I used stronger corrections than what may be politically correct it's because two things. My safety or the dogs safety relied on it and they absolutely had to do what was asked. They could get trampled by the livestock or a bunch of other stuff could go wrong and lead to one of us being hurt.
Well sure pups are easier and people can mess that up to by allowing the puppy to chase the cats ...just saying. And Rocky was 7 months old and 57 pounds when I got him and with the Cat's ... no issues. Apparently he was smart enough to realize that screwing with the cats was a no go??? So he let that go and bided his time. And then at 14 months are so at a full on 116 lbs ... it was Game On ... Bandog vs OS GSD and Rocky always started it!

In anycase if you taught your dogs that they ought to not be acting like "tools" around creatures that could kill them with an E-Collar ... I have no issue with that approach?? I consider that "Keeping it Real" for the dog! You'll get no grief from me. I just tend to favor a low to no dollars approach in dealing with dogs with creature issues ... and "no" not everyone can do that but some can. I can state that as fact as I have heard from them.
Chip18 is offline  
post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 04:22 AM
Master Member
 
thegooseman90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 774
The e collar was more a matter of necessity due to the range. Hard to give a dog a treat from an acre away. The type of dogs I had were the type who worked for you praise and affection so a light tap and a strong "no" in whatever form it took was more effective with them because they could see I wasn't happy with what they were doing. Every dog is different tho. There are dogs who are better off as a kennel dog. They come out to work and go back in their kennel.

But getting back to your last point your DA and rank drive issues with rocky are completely different from OPs issue of prey drive with the cats. Also for OPs situation an e collar isn't needed. He's made progress to where the dog isn't chasing or biting the cats and now he justs wants them left completely alone. And in that situation probably a leave it type command every time the dog looks or follows a cat over and over until it understands the cats are off limits will probably work with enough consistency.
thegooseman90 is offline  
post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 06:44 AM
Elite Member
 
cloudpump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lyons NY
Posts: 1,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip18 View Post
Pretty sure I said hours, not 15 minutes?? Sure ... have four cats, a free roaming, Dog Aggressive and let me know how that works out???

Chuck just happened to have a dog that showed "exactly" what I saw??? I was stunned, my dog friendly, people friendly fresh off the street rescue ... had a "Dark Side" who knew??? Chuck did it his way ... I did it mine. And my cat ... aptly named "Spooky" provided "Proof of Concept." When she first saw that dog, she was ... "outa here!" She lived in the background bedroom for years becasue she did not like one cat. Imagine my surprise when "Spooky" showed up 24 hours later and "Sally" Bowed down before her. I did not mandate she do that ... it was Sally's choice.
I train my dogs to make "Good Choices" apparently, that holds true, even if I just stumble across a dog.

Oh and for the record ... "Formal Obedience" while helpful will not fix "Behavioural Issues." I tried that way back in the day with Rocky and it was a fail. Larry Krohn ... explained to my satisfaction why that was a fail ... just saying.
My bad. 24 hours and cured
I say that you cannot cure genetics. So with that.....
Prove it as you are want to say. Prove that solid obedience doesn't work. Because I've seen high drive dutchies not lighting up a decoy because of solid obedience.
GypsyGhost likes this.

Snitches get stitches.
cloudpump is offline  
post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 03:26 PM
Elite Member
 
cloudpump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lyons NY
Posts: 1,902
@Chip18 I'm surprised you didn't advocate more for using a crate like you did here where you talked about "that owner that didn't have a freaking clue" Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - I did a bad thing
Just curious?
LuvShepherds likes this.

Snitches get stitches.
cloudpump is offline  
post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 03:32 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
The e collar was more a matter of necessity due to the range. Hard to give a dog a treat from an acre away. The type of dogs I had were the type who worked for you praise and affection so a light tap and a strong "no" in whatever form it took was more effective with them because they could see I wasn't happy with what they were doing. Every dog is different tho. There are dogs who are better off as a kennel dog. They come out to work and go back in their kennel.
I'm not a treat kinda guy. I just showed ... what others do ... that's not what I do. Behaviour modification ... is not training, it's a hard freaking NO! And yes an E-Collar gives you standoff distance to correct for a dog making "Poor Choices." It's just mentioned here becasue it is also a viable option but it's not my call.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thegooseman90 View Post
But getting back to your last point your DA and rank drive issues with rocky are completely different from OPs issue of prey drive with the cats. Also for OPs situation an e collar isn't needed. He's made progress to where the dog isn't chasing or biting the cats and now he justs wants them left completely alone. And in that situation probably a leave it type command every time the dog looks or follows a cat over and over until it understands the cats are off limits will probably work with enough consistency.
That's where we disagree ... for me an out control dog is an out of control ... "why" does not matter. Pack Issues or Cat issues in both cases ... you can't control a dog if you don't know where he is??? So yes different creatures, different situations but same solutions, you have to know where your dog is or you can't correct him??

And the Op said this has been going on for Six years??? That's a bit hard to understand?? But in anycase "Leave it" doesn't mean crap without "consequences" and for me ... "leave it" is not sufficient for my cats." One would not use "leave it for a baby???" And I would not use "Leave It" for my Cat's ... others are of course free to do as they see fit.

So if in fact 6 years of this crap is accurate??? Then compare that to my 24 hour change in attitude dog. "This crap will not stand " is what I did with a dog very similar to the one in the first clip. I kinda sorta just skipped the long introduction work.

But back on point, what the OP has done which does seem to have worked to a large degree??? Has gotten him pretty much as far as it can. It's just about the limits of a "PO" approach. Leave it ... would only work if there dog "believes them" and right now ... the dog does not?? If it did ... he would not have started this thread???

So I suppose they could continue to try and "train" there way out of there dog being annoying with the cats?? Train Place, no free roaming or heck train leave it ...blab, blab. Most likely ... any of those options will work ... "eventually." But it's been six years???

It's just a lot simpler to train a dog to "Make Better Choices." And the quickest most efficient way to do that is by delivering an "aversive" ... make better choices dog or there will be consequences! So for this dog and this owner ... I'd use a "Bonker" if the dog goes after the cats and call it a day.

Stopping unwanted behavior with Bonkers! - Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums
Chip18 is offline  
post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Dayton NV
Posts: 7,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
@Chip18 I'm surprised you didn't advocate more for using a crate like you did here where you talked about "that owner that didn't have a freaking clue" Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - I did a bad thing
Just curious?
Different breed, different owner, different situation. She knows she messed up, I merely acknowledged that you don't have to "Crate" train your puppy. I never did with any of mine and not using a "Crate" worked out fine for me ... until it didn't.

I de-crate trained Rocky and came it back to bite me in the butt??? Who knows if I'd have gotten him at seven weeks ... instead of 7 months ... I might not be here???

But no one ask me "what would I do???" If/when I get another Boxer ... if it's a puppy and it will be a girl. I have no idea if I will crate train her??? I'm not necessarily that great at following my own advise. Use a flashlight at night comes to mind ... and "Rocky" got nipped at night on that one. Apparently ... I can't see in the dark ... who knew??? And carry a walking stick yep, I say that and ignored it also and again ... that same night Rocky got nipped. So I tend to give advise ... that does not mean I necessarily follow it??

So yes I've raised many assorted Boxers, Bandogs and Boxer/(Breed that shall not be mentioned) puppies Crate Free and had no issues with those dogs ... but with "Rocky" ... Crate Free ... did not work out so well.

So yes I told her if she does not want to "Crate Train" her puppy she does not need to but she does have to get everything else right. Apparently that was enough and she went back to the Crate Training ... much to my surprise???

But hey I'm a sexist pig as it were and my girls are special. So I feel with the girls ... I can skip the Crate and make it up on the back side. The OP in that thread was not so sure, she could?? So back to the Crate she went.
Chip18 is offline  
post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 04:25 PM
Crowned Member
 
LuvShepherds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudpump View Post
@Chip18 I'm surprised you didn't advocate more for using a crate like you did here where you talked about "that owner that didn't have a freaking clue" Boxer Forum : Boxer Breed Dog Forums - View Single Post - I did a bad thing
Just curious?
A little shocking to see the nasty digs at all of us. SMH.
cloudpump likes this.
LuvShepherds is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome