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Failure to thrive

23K views 208 replies 35 participants last post by  Jchrest 
#1 ·
Is this a thing in puppies? I’m at my wits end. Seiran has not been gaining any weight, and has in fact been losing weight.

She was seen by the vet weekly for this, who is also concerned, so a full blood panel, stool and fecal sample were run on her. She came back negative for all parasites (including the two I can never spell giardia and coccida?), no tapeworm, or other internal parasites. Had stool samples from all 4 dogs sent to the lab as well, they are all clear. literally all blood and stool samples sent to the lab came back negative. No food allergies, no grass allergies, no anything. Sonogram and X-ray done to make sure there was no internal blockage as a precaution. Kidney and liver enzymes and functions normal, blood count normal.

You can see all her ribs at this point, and just starting to see her hip bones and spine. She was originally on 4 cups of Fromm large breed puppy, and was fine. Started noticing a little weight loss and stupidly assumed it was a growth spurt, increased her food to 5 cups. Still losing. Vet recommended increasing to 6 cups, and adding in eggs and sardines (rinsed and dried). Still losing weight. Increased her to 7 cups per meal, and then increased the frequency from 3 times a day to 6 times a dayS Put her on a prescription food in between regular meals, still losing. Switched her completely to prescription food, with the same feeding schedule above, still losing. Decreased her activity levels, still losing. She is down to 26lbs. We had her teeth checked because of the jaw injury, thinking maybe it was causing her pain, but teeth are fine, and she doesn’t have any issue eating.

She’s always been given probiotics, we do not train with treats because she is more toy driven. If she wasn’t my dog, and I saw her in someone’s yard, I’d likely call AC for a wellness check.

Her activity levels are still through the roof, and she plays, trains, and acts completely fine. Coat is still shiny, but is beginning to have a rough hay like texture. I just really don’t know what to do. The vet has sent all her lab work, xrays, and sonograms to a colleague for second opinions. The waiting is killing me, I can just watch the weight drop off. The vet kept her for three days to evaluate her, monitor her vitals and food intact, and she dropped weight in their care as well.

Has anyone experienced this? Have any recommendations within a days drive for a specialist if my vet can’t get answers? I’m in southern AZ. This is well beyond the normal lanky stage as they hit growth spurts and shoot up and not out.
 
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#4 ·
That doesn't sound like a failure to thrive? If she is happy, playing and training, she has good energy. If she was laying on the living room floor all day refusing to eat, I would see that as a failure to thrive.

How old is she?

How does her poop look?

Mine has always been thin. No matter how much I feed her. I had her eating a pound of NW Naturals beef, per meal, 3 times a day and putting boiled sweet potatoes on top. No weight gain. She just has a fast metabolism.

You can try raw, but it takes a lot to put weight on them. When I went to Ziwi, that is what finally got her to fill out. People still give me crap about her being too thin, but I think she is just right. Shasta is 19 months and 62 pounds or so.
 
#5 ·
She was born March 3rd of this year, so just at the 6 month mark.

Stools are perfectly normal. Solid, well formed.

I didn’t look up failure to thrive, just was the closest comparison I could think of. I didn’t know it was possible in dogs.

I wouldn’t be so concerned if a) my vet wasn’t concerned and b) she’s experiencing fast constant weight loss. She went from 46lbs to 26lbs in a month and a half.
 
#15 ·
She was born March 3rd of this year, so just at the 6 month mark.

she’s experiencing fast constant weight loss. She went from 46lbs to 26lbs in a month and a half.
Which dog is this? How old? 56% weight loss in 6 weeks...that isn't a dog "that tends to be thin". Please everyone, read posts carefully before dismissing something like this as a naturally thin dog like yours. I know you all mean well but plenty of people (not talking about OP) will come here for advice instead of a vet and...well, you know. Unless it was an obese dog on a new super strict diet...even then this would be a feat of loss.

Definitely keep pressing, maybe a second opinion or specialist is in order.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Okay, I may be wrong...but I'm going to bet there is NOTHING wrong with her, other than she's a normal, healthy, active dog who's going through the 'bottomless pit' stage of development. Keep feeding her, loving her, maybe TRY to decrease her activity a bit so she's not burning so many calories. Eventually, her metabolism will slow as her growth slows, and she will gain weight.

I've seen SO many similar posts by people worried about their young, growing dog's weight, and 99% of the time there is NOTHING wrong with them.

I have to confess, this is a pretty extreme case, though, but since her energy level is good, I think she's okay. The rough coat could be because this is SHEDDING SEASON. I have been up to my armpits in dog hair for over a month now, and the old coat does feel a little rough as it is about to shed out.
 
#7 ·
Okay, I may be wrong...but I'm going to bet there is NOTHING wrong with her, other than she's a normal, healthy, active dog who's going through the 'bottomless pit' stage of development. Keep feeding her, loving her, maybe TRY to decrease her activity a bit so she's not burning so many calories. Eventually, her metabolism will slow as her growth slows, and she will gain weight.

I've seen SO many similar posts by people worried about their young, growing dog's weight, and 99% of the time there is NOTHING wrong with them.
I’ve seen the plethora of posts as well, and all the pics posted look like normal awkward lanky stage. Seiran’s body scale according to the vet is at a 2 right now. And I know growth spurts can cause some skinniness, but dropping 20lbs in a month in a half seems outside the norm. Those posts always said there dogs weren’t gaining, but they weren’t losing either.

I fully appreciate the feedback though, and will cross my fingers that this is all it is.
 
#8 ·
Wow, that is a big drop!

You might want to stop with the probiotics to see if it makes a difference? Give her some raw commercial beef or Ziwi. The beef seemed to have the most fat in it to get Shasta to put weight on. Every time I tried something different, she would always loose weight.

Every time I mentioned RX food, my holistic vet laughed. It is just a rip off.
 
#10 ·
I’m thinking that will be my next step. That or ask my vet for referral to a specialist. She eats all her food like she is starving. Which is what she looks like. I was tempted to put one of the adults large bowls in her crate, fill it to the brim, and let her free fed, but I also don’t want to make her sick either.

I’ve been in touch with her breeder, and she hasn’t had any of the other owners in this litter with this issue. DH’s best friend also has a pup from the same litter, though his is a male, and he’s doing fine too. I started to think it may be something in my home causing this, but all the other 3 dogs are fine, no weight loss at all. Plus she is always supervised, or crated when she cannot be supervised, so I would have noticed if she was getting into anything the other dogs weren’t.

My mind just keeps spinning trying to figure this out.
 
#20 ·
I don't have the specifics handy but I have a dog that tested positive for EPI but it was a false positive. The way I understand it, from spending time in the EPI community, that there is only one lab that they accept a diagnosis from and they say the others simply aren't reliable. I am not sure but I think a dog can have normal stools on EPI.

If I were you, I would try digestive enzymes on your puppy. You can purchase them online without a prescription at a reasonable price and are safe. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will give you more information and links.
 
#43 ·
This is not a growth spurt. Something is seriously wrong with Seiran, and if someone doesn't figure it out she will probably die.

You are a highly intelligent, experienced dog owner who accurately observes what your dogs do, so I know Seiran hasn't been puking her guts out or spewing out diarrhea.

I have some experience with this kind of thing (too much!), and this is what I recommend.

First, and most important, Seiran may have Addison's disease. Addison's disease can affect any breed of dog, regardless of age. It is not the most likely possibility here but it is the most lethal. If she has Addison's disease and crashes and is raced to the emergency room, there is a 50% chance she will die. To diagnose this, the vet needs to an ACTH stimulation test, which involves drawing blood, injecting the dog with ACTH, and drawing another blood sample 2 hours later. This needs to be done ASAP. If your vet refuses to do it or doesn't have the ACTH needed to do it, find another vet who will do it immediately. Addison's disease is treatable, although the treatment is lifelong.

Get an abdominal and cardiac ultrasound from a vet who has a good-quality ultrasound machine and knows how to interpret the images correctly. Seiran may have some kind of internal mass.

I don't have the specifics handy but I have a dog that tested positive for EPI but it was a false positive. The way I understand it, from spending time in the EPI community, that there is only one lab that they accept a diagnosis from and they say the others simply aren't reliable.
You are correct. Test results can be wrong.

I think a dog can have normal stools on EPI.
Right again--in early EPI, this can happen.

If I were you, I would try digestive enzymes on your puppy. You can purchase them online without a prescription at a reasonable price and are safe. If you are interested, send me a PM and I will give you more information and links.
An excellent suggestion. Even if Seiran does not have EPI but something like inflammatory GI disease, these digestive enzymes can help her absorb her food. At worst, they won't hurt unless she is allergic to pork (and then you can try beef-based enzymes). I would order them now and start Seiran on them. Make sure they are shipped with a cold pack, as heat during shipping will wreck the enzymes. These enzymes are not the same as Prozyme.

Take in a very fresh fecal sample and have your vet send it out for an IDEXX diarrhea RealPCR test. This will test for weirdo gastrointestinal parasites.

Have Seiran tested for heartworm and tick diseases. Your vet should have done this in their office using the SNAP4-DX. Tick diseases can cause just about anything. If she tests negative, it's still worth putting her on doxycycline and seeing if she responds. Many tick diseases haven't been discovered yet, and the ones that have been can hide in the organs and not show up in the blood.

Make an appointment now with a board-certified veterinary internal medicine specialist for a GI endoscopy and biopsy. You can always cancel this if you fix the problem before then.

Also, stop deworming the crap out of Seiran. Unless she has an enormous load of worms, there is no way worms could cause this kind of severe weight loss. Also, totally wiping out worms can cause the dog's body to go nuts and attack itself since it has no worms to attack, causing inflammatory GI disease.
 
#21 ·
Dogs are fed separately, and watched. I take them outside within 15-20 minutes of eating, pups first, then the big dogs. She is definitely not regurgitating it, that’s a noise that’s impossible to miss even if my eyes lost sight of her.

She is the 6 month old black GSD. Well, now mostly a deep brown.

The only changes in the house have been Crios being neutered, because I will not have the physical strength to keep him away from Seiran if necessary when she goes into heat, and Crios is past the 2yr marker. Seiran is now the only intact dog. And obviously the foster turned permanent Floki, but this started before his arrival.

They all did get a viral infection that the vet explained as the human equivalent of the flu, they all reverse sneezed for a week or two, and that was it. Floki had eye and nasal discharge, but that quickly went away. Full blood panel on him as well, including a distemper test.

We live in a crappy town. It’s quantity over quality in almost every area across the board. My vet is great, and is not from here. She relocated after a lung issue, and was told she needed a dry climate. Welcome to the desert! Anyway, I would have already taken Seiran out of state, or at the very least, into northern AZ for a second opinion if this vet was born and raised here. I know that sounds horrible, but unless you’ve been to Yuma, it’s something you would have to see to believe.

Crios has always been thin, but nothing like this. He has started to fill in, whether due to the neuter or age, I couldn’t say for sure.

Sorry, just trying to give as much info as possible. Yes, the numbers were correct, she has lost 20lbs in 6-7 weeks. She has had a few growth spurts and is taller, but again, this is well past the gangly stage.

I’ll start researching GI specialist in AZ, CA, and NM and see if I can’t get her in ASAP. If anyone has recommendations in either of those three states, I’d love to hear them!
 
#31 ·
I have actually had dogs regurgutate pretty quietly. No heaving. Quick and quiet. I have walked into my kitchen to a pile of puke and missed hearing it from one room over with no door. Had one do it two weeks ago after he ate unripe blackberries and tummy hit eject.

Just a thought, since like others said the math not really adding up. She is on a high cal kibble?

I recentlt discovered by accident that Alpo crap canned food has huge calorues in it. Just happened to read the label when it came with a boarder. Want to say nearly 1000 cal in a can which is way more than what I usually see in a regular can of dog food.

If shebwere mega e I guess you would have seen her do it at some point but it is the only other explanation I could think of for why she seems to not be "getting" her food and you have a lot of dogs.
 
#22 ·
The math isn't making sense. My very active, muscular, intact boy who is in his prime (100 lbs) now eats about 6 cups a day of Canidae, which is pretty calorie dense food per cup. He runs about 10 miles a day with me- to define very active.

Is she absolutely taking in and pooping out all this food?

If so, she clearly isn't absorbing nutrients for some reason. I don't know much about EPI- but I see no harm in trying digestive enzymes.

I would think, though, that there is something pretty serious going on internally that is preventing her system from either absorbing or processing nutrients. I'd take her to a specialist, and soon. Vet teaching hospitals can be good bets- I don't know Arizona at all so can't help with that.

I know Colorado has a good teaching hospital if you want to make the trip. Also heard great things about Cal Davis.

Have you dewormed her with all the types of dewormers just in case? I had a GSD with whipworm and after several tests we finally caught it- but there were many false negatives prior to that and she was skinny- 48 lbs but her healthy weight was 75. I can't think what else could be wrong except, unfortunately, something pretty serious like autoimmune etc. However, if she is bright, active, and eager to eat, with formed poops, that's a bit strange.

Take her to a specialist. That's my advice.
 
#23 ·
Hey one more thought. I am not from Arizona but I have worked close to there and been through Yuma. I'm sorry to say I hated it - all I remember is how hot and dry and flat it was and that my poor dog burned his feet walking to the river. I am not a desert person...

Have you tested for Valley Fever?
 
#24 ·
All 4 dogs have been through 4 dewormings. We couldn’t deworm her as a pup because of the jaw injury, and her vaccinations were not started until later as well. She is UTD on all vaccinations now, including a one year rabies. All 4 dogs were given two different types of deworming as a precaution when this started happening, vet said some parasites are difficult to pick up, and it wouldn’t hurt to try. We sent stool samples to their out of state lab, both before and after the deworming, nothing picked up on any of the 4.

I’ll check into Cal Davis, thanks for the suggestion. I have no issue with traveling to get her to someone who can help. Well, I can’t take her personally, but DH can.
 
#25 ·
@Saco, that’s Yuma! I hate it too, but DH cannot move until his daughters graduate, so I’m making the best of it that I can.

I’m not sure if valley fever was checked for. I’ll call her vet when they open at 8 to check. They ran so many different panels on her, I can’t remember them all. I know EPI was checked, parasites, kidney/liver function, blood count, But it was a $400 lab bill, so I would hope they checked for all possibilities, but I’m not sure. That’s horrible, I should be sure. It’s just all so much at once I can’t seem to retain everything.
 
#26 ·
I watch them eat so they don’t cross bowls. The big dogs are fed in a separate room, and the pups are fed in the same room, but apart from each other. I literally just sit and watch because Seiran will run to Floki’s bowl and try to eat his food before she eats her own. They are on the same food, but Seiran gets triple the amount Floki gets.

She is not as active as your GSD, between the heat and my surgery, no possible way to run her. She is high energy, and we play a lot of catch, flirt pole, inside scent work, things that essentially can be done outside at night, or indoors. I attached the info on the Fromm she’s on, I’ll be honest, I’m not great at breaking down calorie content, I went with the Fromm because it was all Lyka did well on, so when we got the pups, we just went with the puppy version of what I feed my adults.
 

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#27 ·
The shepherd I had before Samson had a problem keeping weight on.He was eating well and had good energy like your dog but he began to look emaciated.Out of desperation I began feeding him home cooked meals and giving him Prozyme(over the counter med for pancreatic function).He began filling out.I gradually got him back on kibble,but in a senior blend that was easier to digest along with the Prozyme.The vet wasn't able to diagnose EPI either,but he obviously wasn't able to absorb the nutrients he needed.That worked for Dakota anyway,so it's something for you to ponder.
 
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#28 ·
Oh, stools have been normal, as in not increased size or amount, except when we have her at 7 cups like we do now, she goes 4 times a day instead of 3. My adults go twice, Floki goes 3 times. Not large piles, no visible food chunks in there like she is not digesting and pooping out whole pieces of food.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I would run a tick panel on her -- there are several tick diseases that can interfere with food absorption and cause a dog getting normal rations to become emaciated. At early stages they may not have other symptoms, but life-threatening ones come in later stages. For a full tick panel, blood has to be sent out to a lab and takes about a week to get results.


Even though you may not normally have many ticks, last year was a wetter-than-normal year in most of the West, so they may have been popping out in the Spring and early Summer even in places where they aren't normally common.


If there's really no disease and it's a fast metabolism issue, we use Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete to put weight on hard-keepers in the rescue. It's higher calorie than some other options. I think Victor might have a similar type of high-cal food too. I think you have more going on than food if you're feeding the recommended amount on the bag and still loosing that much weight -- it's common to have to feed more than recommended to a young, active adolescent, but the kind of weight loss you describe just seems wrong.
 
#30 ·
I would run a tick panel on her -- there are several tick diseases that can interfere with food absorption and cause a dog getting normal rations to become emaciated. At early stages they may not have other symptoms, but life-threatening ones come in later stages. For a full tick panel, blood has to be sent out to a lab and takes about a week to get results.
I’m waiting on a call back from the vets office to see if any tick related illnesses were checked for. They did sent both blood and stool to an out of state lab. I’ll update when they call back.
 
#32 ·
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