Puppy Food / gulper - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
bassun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southwestern VA
Posts: 37
Puppy Food / gulper

Hello all -- This is yet another "what food is best" type of question that I've read 100 different answers to, but I have an added twist in that our dog is a gulper and I am wondering about kibble shape with regards to that.

3 M/O Male, 31lbs. Day 3 at the house, old owners fed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy food. Naturally we are keeping that going, and will begin transitioning off it asap. Although it is listed as a good food by the dogfoodadviser, looking at the ingredients: 2-Corn Meal 3-Chicken By-Product Meal 5-Brewers Rice it just does not seem like a top notch food. We had initially planned on changing over to Merrick but as I was looking for best in class, I started seeing more and more about the issues with Grain Free... So, I shifted from the Merrick offerings and was settling on either Royal Canin GSD Food [Seems a bit high in protein for a growing large breed, and a shade low on phosphorus - which seemed odd for a food designed for GSD's], Holistic Lamb and Oat Large and Giant puppy food which seems to be right on the money by the numbers. Or because of such rave reviews here, Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food - although I could not find a good breakdown of the nutritional info to compare vs RC or Holistic.

Honestly, I suspect any of those three would be fantastic kibble for the pup - but, I did note the RC was designed to encourage chewing. "Nash" is a very bad gulper. Zero chew of kibble, chomp a mouthfull and swallow. He will wipe out a cup in a matter of seconds. Until I get a slowfeed bowl (stopping today to pick one up) I've been tossing a few pieces in his bowl at a time, and forcing him to slow down that way. I tried using a toy to slow him down, but he just forced through it and it made no difference. Now, he's not at all food "aggressive" - no growling, or anything of that nature when I have my hands IN his bowl, or take the bowl away or whatever. He is very forceful in trying to get to the food and to eat it as fast as humanly ... err doggedly possible.

I'm not sure how much of a difference food shape will actually make, and I suspect once he realizes he no longer has to fight for his food the gulping will begin to fade - but it's just not worth the risk to not do what I can to help quell it. So, does anyone have any experience with the RC GSD food in regards to gulping? AKA, does it actually help? And of course, glad to hear any opinions on the food selections. I know, some will say Orijen or bust, but at 38% protein, that seems like asking for too speedy of growth potential. I think, basically, considering the gulping my best question is which of the three: RC GSD, Holistic Lamb and Oat, Fromm Gold Large puppy. Or am I overlooking a great option (Not a big fan of Victor) And will not be feeding Grain Free unless we need to.

Oh, and feel free to post some - "hey look here" links on gulping. I have not yet even began researching how to stop that yet.
bassun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 03:27 PM
Member
 
BlitzTheGSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 88
Congrats on the pup! I switched from grain free as well and went on to Victor and absolutely love it, hard poops, shiny coat, great teeth. But of the ones you stated ive heard only amazing things about Fromm.. My beast is also an inhaler of anything stupid enough to get close to his mouth. The slow feeder works perfect when I need it but I do all of his feeding by hand while training so hes only getting small handfuls at a time, this can also help with food guarding and is great for bonding.

Also, i dont think the type of food or kibble shape makes any difference at all.


Show us some pics!!
BlitzTheGSD is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
bassun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southwestern VA
Posts: 37
Introducing Nash. Freshly primped from the stop at Petsmart on the way home.

As for the kibble shape, I'm of the same opinion but have never had to consider it before. I have no personal experiences with Victor so I'm purely basing it others experience. What made you decide victor over the others? We fed Wellness Core to Beau (our Bloodhound). Helped a bit going grain free for his allergies. As he got sick and we were trying different foods to spark his appetite we tried Merrick and he enjoyed it quite well and it seemed to be very high quality. But seems like their large puppy foods are all grain free...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20181201_203607_1543882368045.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	515041  
bassun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 09:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Tr@ce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: LonG Island, New Yawk
Posts: 307
I didn't worry about kibble shapes. I fed by hand sometimes, especially when I wanted to start teaching "watch me" or "leave it", and I also bought a slow feeder bowl. Kong makes a wobbly treat/kibble dispensing toy that's good for amusing a dog AND slowing the rate at which he can eat. Try those out.

FYI the people who gave me Boon were feeding "Good Natured" puppy food, which was a PetCo brand I think, and being phased out. I bought all the store had and it lasted me months. By the time Boon was about 5 months, I was transitioning him slowly to an adult food. He has eaten American Journey brand salmon and sweet potato ever since and done well on it. (That's a brand from Chewy.com)

Last edited by [email protected]; 12-03-2018 at 09:13 PM.
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 09:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 466
Mine is on Victor. He's done great on it. As far as these GSD forums are concerned you can't go wrong with Fromm's and Victor. I have used RC GSD on a previous dog and it worked fine for him. If your dog does fine on it, no reason not to use it. However RC GSD is considerably more expensive than Fromms or Victor which are generally known to be better quality food than RC.
tc68 is online now  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-03-2018, 11:41 PM
Member
 
BlitzTheGSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Miami, Fl
Posts: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassun View Post
Introducing Nash. Freshly primped from the stop at Petsmart on the way home.

As for the kibble shape, I'm of the same opinion but have never had to consider it before. I have no personal experiences with Victor so I'm purely basing it others experience. What made you decide victor over the others? We fed Wellness Core to Beau (our Bloodhound). Helped a bit going grain free for his allergies. As he got sick and we were trying different foods to spark his appetite we tried Merrick and he enjoyed it quite well and it seemed to be very high quality. But seems like their large puppy foods are all grain free...

I fed my last shepherd TOTW, which is what I would have fed my new pup if not for the new study saying grain free causes DCM, which is what my last one passed from. So I decided to stay away from grain free this time (which wasnt easy because most of these reputable companies specify in grainfree) and the overall consensus from this group and some local trainers is either raw or victor. I knew I didnt want to feed raw but I never heard of them so did my own research and it looked like a very high quality product so decided to go with it and am very happy I did. *I feed the Victor Nutra Pro
BlitzTheGSD is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-04-2018, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
bassun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southwestern VA
Posts: 37
Ok, thanks guys. After doing a little digging on my own about Victor, yeah it looks like very high quality food. And I see a TON of people here feed it. I really like the ingredient list on the Nutra Pro - but I do have one concern. If I noted it correctly, one of the suggestions with Large Breed Puppies was to keep the protein a little lower, something like 15%-27% ideally. Even the standard guideline was 28% IIRC. But, with the V- Nutra Pro its 38% (Same as Orijin I think). Is that not actually too high for large breeds? (And yeah, I get that is being really picky and compared to a lot of foods that a lot of dogs eat its in a whole new level, but...) We previously had a Bloodhound with Dysplasia, which we were lucky in that it started bad but very slowly progressed [I think due to a consistent quality food and glucosamine/chondroitin suppliments for about a decade. Good weight and relatively low activity of course helped immensely (no long long walks, hikes etc. He would be sore from shorter ones and even long car rides, which he loved.]

I'm not trying to be a contrarian, and I know a lot of folks are feeding this. I'm just concerned that its going to put unnecessary weight on Nash if we are unable to burn off a ton of calories. I would love to say that we would be able to, but reality is that we probably would not - especially in winter. I am no expert, far from it. But, while I think V-Nutra (for example) is a fantastic food - I am afraid it may be better suited to a dog that would be worked over much harder than we will be able to.

If I'm overthinking it, that's fine too - I just wanted to try to head off issues if I can...

Maybe the numbers I have are wrong but I have the ideal as:
Calcium .7-1.2%
Fat 9-12%
Protein 15-27% (Stay on the lower end if high quality protein)
Phosphorus 1-1.6% (in a 1:1 up to 1.8/1 Calcium/Phosphorus ratio)

Victor Nutra Pro has:
Protein: 38%
Fat: 18%
Calcium: 1.38%
Phosphorus: 1.16
The ingredients are top notch, but everything is above the ideal, save Phosphorus.

Holistic Select Large and Giant Breed Puppy Health Lamb Meal & Oatmeal:
Protein: 23%
Fat: 12%
Calcium: 1.1
Phosphorus .8 (a little low)
This seemed to have the "best" numbers vs "Ideal", but I have heard very little in terms of people feeding it.

Fromm Gold Large Puppy:
Protein: 26%
Fat 14%
I could not find Calcium or phosphorus listed, but I seem to remember reading somewhere here that it was under 1.2% calcium.
bassun is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
bassun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southwestern VA
Posts: 37
Ok, I apparently just did not write down the rest of the numbers from the Fromm website. To update the last post, they list everything and Calcium was 1.35 Phosphorus 1.02.

I think considering Nash will be getting other forms of protein anyway, I am going to avoid the really high percentage in Victor. Fromm's Large Breed Puppy Gold is going to be our first trial. Hopefully all goes well, and we can feed that.

As for the gulping... It's really aggravating to go from a bloodhound that we were able to free feed with no issues, to the gulper GSD lol. But, it really has been a blessing in it's own little way. I've done more hand feeding than I anticipated and used kibble as training treats more often than I did with Beau. I am 100% on the "you should be able to mess with your dogs food bowl at any time" side of that argument - and having to deal with the gulper should take that food time interaction even further. I did pick up one of the slow-feeder bowls and I have to say I am amazed! As a test, I loaded it with 1 cup of food... which he would scarf in a matter of seconds in a standard small feeding dish - with the slow feeder, it took just over 4 1/2 minutes! I don't think it would work as well with much more, as it would just be too piled up.

I like the feeding interaction, and mixing up some hand feeding, refilling, and uninterrupted feeding is great -- but I know I don't always have time to control the feed speed myself, the slow feeder bowl steps in perfectly. It's also fun to watch him work out his plan of attack. I think a little extra problem solving, especially as a pup, is a great thing! I wish it was not an issue, but, after watching him I may would use a slow feeder on any dog (at least intermittently) just to make feeding time more of an event vs just dumping kibble and moving on.
bassun is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 10:14 AM
Member
 
mmags's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 141
Its a myth that high protein causes rapid growth in puppies. What you need to make sure is correct is the calcium and phosphorus ratios. Puppies benefit from high fat and high protein as this is when their bodies need it most.
[email protected] likes this.
mmags is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
bassun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Southwestern VA
Posts: 37
It wasn't rapid growth, as in bone development, that I am concerned with - in terms of protein. It's the quick weight gain high protein diets often end up with, especially if the dog is not worked hard enough to burn the calories. That alone can cause joint issues in the long term because of the way they are being developed early with extra rapid weight gain. If I can help avoid hip issues or arthritis in the long run, I would rather go slow now. Kind of the same as boosting calcium with cottage cheese, or whatever, to help ear pop. Does it help? Maybe, probably not -- but to me, not worth boosting calcium to get ears up considering the long term potential impact. The other thing I am taking into consideration is that we also supplement kibble with training treats, etc. Being meat based, they are miniature protein packs.

The other concern with high protein is the potential impacts on the kidney and liver. I know that a healthy dog "should" be able to tolerate high levels of protein, safely -- but if they have any liver or kidney issues, extra protein is detrimental. I'd rather stay slow and safe, instead of risking things. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a "low protein" diet at all. Just thinking I want to avoid really high levels. Fromm's blue bag has 26%, add in additional from training treats (although I am using more and more kibble than treats) and I think that will be plenty high. BUT -- having just said all of that... I am NOT a pet nutritionist, so if I am wrong and we SHOULD be feeding higher than what I have recorded as a recommended 15-27% nominal range, please feel free to correct me.

I fed higher than that for many years (34%), with additional meats. Kidney levels were always a little off, and I nor the vets made any connection - or had any concern about the food because it was good quality food. However, once we were in chronic kidney failure (unrealized because it was slow forming, and Beau gave no indicators we noticed. We only found it via bloodwork following a likely cancer diagnosis) - we cut proteins for the obvious reasons. I don't know that we didn't exacerbate things by feeding too protein rich of a diet. So, I guess I am also a little gun shy...
[email protected] likes this.
bassun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Large breed puppy food vs reg puppy food Deb Feeding Our Puppy 8 10-11-2016 11:58 AM
Food! Food! Food! CujoGSD Diet & Nutrition 6 09-05-2012 12:31 PM
Problems with the Food in Food-Hand losing grip of food Mrs.K Schutzhund/IPO Training 19 05-10-2012 05:13 PM
puppy food vs. large breed puppy food BradN88 Feeding Our Puppy 6 07-19-2010 08:21 PM
When to switch from puppy food to adult food ospreygray Feeding Our Puppy 4 07-14-2009 03:46 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome