switching to kibble questions - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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switching to kibble questions

Koda is now 16 weeks old, he has been fed a raw diet from 8 weeks, which he was doing really good on except that his poop would be very inconsistent after eating his secreting organs (some days he gets diarreah some days he's fine). For those of you who dont know, secreting organs in a raw diet is where they get their vitamins from so in fear of depriving him of vitamins i chose to switch to fromm's large breed puppy food. i have a couple questions

1. First off Koda doesn't eat fast so dont take this as he is gulping his food down. I'm on the third day of feeding kibble and koda seems to kind of caugh up some of his kibble while hes eating, Im assuming its because he's not used to it? I'm also assuming its because he's not chewing his food? the kibble size is really small and i read a little bit about how its normal for dogs to not chew their kibble when the kibble is small. Also raw food holds alot of moister and kibble is super dry so is this why he's caughing it up while hes eating?

2. I'm concerned for his teeth, He has pearly white teeth and i assume its because of all the raw meaty bones he's been eating. Because he isn't chewing his kibble should i give him something like chicken feet to eat every day for his teeth?

For those of you who are concerned with me giving chicken feet while hes on a kibble diet, there is alot of controversy about feeding raw and kibble together in a meal because of different digestion rates, i will be making sure atleast a few hours have passed after feeding kibble before giving him anything raw.

thanks for reading!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 05:29 PM
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For coughing up the kibble, since the kibble is dry and he has just been changed over from a raw diet, and considering he is only 16 weeks and could be teething, I would try moistening the kibble.

This older thread has some further comments:
https://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...up-kibble.html

For feeding raw chicken feet to a puppy see the vet's comment:

https://www.petcoach.co/question/?id=185406

i've always fed kibble and my dogs had lovely teeth even when they were seniors. I do brush the teeth daily.


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 06:51 PM
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I would also suggest soaking the kibble with water and wait until it expands and soaks up some water. It will up the moisture content for hopefully he doesn't cough on it, and will make it easier and faster to digest

As for teeth you can still give raw meaty bones throughout his life on kibble to keep up the dental care. and if needed get them cleaned at the vet or use a scraper on your own (as long as you are comfortable and careful, and he allows it)

Last edited by Suzy25; 08-10-2018 at 06:54 PM.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mary Beth View Post
For coughing up the kibble, since the kibble is dry and he has just been changed over from a raw diet, and considering he is only 16 weeks and could be teething, I would try moistening the kibble.

This older thread has some further comments:
https://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...up-kibble.html

For feeding raw chicken feet to a puppy see the vet's comment:

https://www.petcoach.co/question/?id=185406

i've always fed kibble and my dogs had lovely teeth even when they were seniors. I do brush the teeth daily.

I've been feeding a completely raw diet for over 12 years. Raised dogs from 8 week old puppies that have never eaten kibble. Raw bones do not splinter. A healthy dog can eat chicken quarters and chicken thighs with bones with absolutely no issues. Please, be very careful when taking a veterinarians opinion on a raw diet. For one thing, they get very little training in Veterinary school on nutrition and diet. Secondly, the training they do receive is from Hills Science Diet or a rep from another large dog food manufacturer. Third, vets make money selling specialty diets.

I have never brushed my dogs teeth and I have never had anything but pearly white teeth. My dogs have lived to 12 - 13 years old and been healthy, athletic animals till the end. Prior, the oldest GSD I had fed on kibble was 8 1/2 - 9 years. Either dying from bloat or cancer.

@john3043, if you want to feed kibble that is fine. I would watch for allergies to the kibble after switching, including ear infections and skin issues. This is one of the main issues that GSD's have with a kibble diet. Then you begin the fight of medicines and regular vet visits to clear up all the other problems. Your vet will be happy to prescribe meds and sell you expensive specialty diets.

Regarding your issue with loose stools, that is because you had either too much fat or too much organ meat in that meal. Too much liver will cause black loose stools. This may have been your problem. You may not have the percentages right and causing the loose stools by feeding too much organ meat.

Regarding bones in the diet, it is essential and critical to have raw bones in the diet of a raw fed dog. Raw chicken quarters are the ideal ratio of meat to bone. I have never fed chicken feet, but raw bone is a critical part of a raw fed diet. I have fed my dogs deer necks and even deer legs with no issues. Although, I now stay away from any weight bearing bones of animals larger than chickens. A raw diet absence of raw bones will be unbalanced and nutritionally incomplete.

The point is to not give up so quickly on the raw diet do to loose stools. You need to experiment and modify the diet. Im sure too much organ meat in your feedings was the issue.
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Last edited by Slamdunc; 08-10-2018 at 07:09 PM.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
I've been feeding a completely raw diet for over 12 years. Raised dogs from 8 week old puppies that have never eaten kibble. Raw bones do not splinter. A healthy dog can eat chicken quarters and chicken thighs with bones with absolutely no issues. Please, be very careful when taking a veterinarians opinion on a raw diet. For one thing, they get very little training in Veterinary school on nutrition and diet. Secondly, the training they do receive is from Hills Science Diet or a rep from another large dog food manufacturer. Third, vets make money selling specialty diets.

I have never brushed my dogs teeth and I have never had anything but pearly white teeth. My dogs have lived to 12 - 13 years old and been healthy, athletic animals till the end. Prior, the oldest GSD I had fed on kibble was 8 1/2 - 9 years. Either dying from bloat or cancer.

@john3043, if you want to feed kibble that is fine. I would watch for allergies to the kibble after switching, including ear infections and skin issues. This is one of the main issues that GSD's have with a kibble diet. Then you begin the fight of medicines and regular vet visits to clear up all the other problems. Your vet will be happy to prescribe meds and sell you expensive specialty diets.

Regarding your issue with loose stools, that is because you had either too much fat or too much organ meat in that meal. Too much liver will cause black loose stools. This may have been your problem. You may not have the percentages right and causing the loose stools by feeding too much organ meat.

Regarding bones in the diet, it is essential and critical to have raw bones in the diet of a raw fed dog. Raw chicken quarters are the ideal ratio of meat to bone. I have never fed chicken feet, but raw bone is a critical part of a raw fed diet. I have fed my dogs deer necks and even deer legs with no issues. Although, I now stay away from any weight bearing bones of animals larger than chickens. A raw diet absence of raw bones will be unbalanced and nutritionally incomplete.

The point is to not give up so quickly on the raw diet do to loose stools. You need to experiment and modify the diet. Im sure too much organ meat in your feedings was the issue.
Im positive i have the percentages right for the rmb and mm.

My problem is, its taken me a solid 3 weeks to get him to only 3.3 percent of his daily dose of liver which is excluding his other 5% of secreting organs (i learned early on that i would have to wait till i was able to feed 5% of his liver before i would be able to introduce him to another organ, his stomache didnt agree with it all)

So at the 3 week mark he is eating 1.2 ounces of liver daily ( he eats 36 ounces total a day). Right before i try to bump it up a little closer to the recommended 5% of 1.8 ounces his stomach decides it doesnt agree with the liver any more ( i know it was the liver because he would be fine one day, the next day he would have diarreah so i wouldnt feed him liver the following day and his poop would be solid again) this happened a few times last week so i kind of panicked because of how long its been taking and because of how i feel like im depriving him of him nutrients because of not being able to feed him appropriate percentages of his secreting oragans
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-10-2018, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
I've been feeding a completely raw diet for over 12 years. Raised dogs from 8 week old puppies that have never eaten kibble. Raw bones do not splinter. A healthy dog can eat chicken quarters and chicken thighs with bones with absolutely no issues. Please, be very careful when taking a veterinarians opinion on a raw diet. For one thing, they get very little training in Veterinary school on nutrition and diet. Secondly, the training they do receive is from Hills Science Diet or a rep from another large dog food manufacturer. Third, vets make money selling specialty diets.

I have never brushed my dogs teeth and I have never had anything but pearly white teeth. My dogs have lived to 12 - 13 years old and been healthy, athletic animals till the end. Prior, the oldest GSD I had fed on kibble was 8 1/2 - 9 years. Either dying from bloat or cancer.

@john3043, if you want to feed kibble that is fine. I would watch for allergies to the kibble after switching, including ear infections and skin issues. This is one of the main issues that GSD's have with a kibble diet. Then you begin the fight of medicines and regular vet visits to clear up all the other problems. Your vet will be happy to prescribe meds and sell you expensive specialty diets.

Regarding your issue with loose stools, that is because you had either too much fat or too much organ meat in that meal. Too much liver will cause black loose stools. This may have been your problem. You may not have the percentages right and causing the loose stools by feeding too much organ meat.

Regarding bones in the diet, it is essential and critical to have raw bones in the diet of a raw fed dog. Raw chicken quarters are the ideal ratio of meat to bone. I have never fed chicken feet, but raw bone is a critical part of a raw fed diet. I have fed my dogs deer necks and even deer legs with no issues. Although, I now stay away from any weight bearing bones of animals larger than chickens. A raw diet absence of raw bones will be unbalanced and nutritionally incomplete.

The point is to not give up so quickly on the raw diet do to loose stools. You need to experiment and modify the diet. Im sure too much organ meat in your feedings was the issue.
Also i dont know why i havent thought of this. When i feed him his chicken liver i usually give his whole serving of it for dinner. I feed twice a day. Do you think it would help if i split up his needed serving size so he has half for breakfast and the other half for dinner?
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 12:26 AM
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Yes, that is too much liver in one feeding. I would look into other organ sources and not feed liver everyday. I may feed 1 1/2 ounces of liver in one feeding for a 75 lb adult dog getting 48 ounces of food. I do not feed liver everyday. I do add pureed vegetables into my dogs food, I also add a frozen organ meat blend in.

I would need to know more about what you are feeding in total to have an idea if your diet is good and balanced.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, that is too much liver in one feeding. I would look into other organ sources and not feed liver everyday. I may feed 1 1/2 ounces of liver in one feeding for a 75 lb adult dog getting 48 ounces of food. I do not feed liver everyday. I do add pureed vegetables into my dogs food, I also add a frozen organ meat blend in.

I would need to know more about what you are feeding in total to have an idea if your diet is good and balanced.
I’m feeding about 15% bone 75%muscle meat and allocating 5% chicken liver and then 5 % some other kind of secreting organ which I haven’t added yet since I’m waiting for him to get used to 5% liver.

Raw meaty bones I’ve been going back and forth between chicken wings, chicken leg quarter, and turkey necks.

For muscle meat I’ve been rotating through chicken gizzards and hearts, ground beef, ground turkey, ground pork, ground lamb, chicken breast, and sardines, I might be missing something

I give give him about 2 whole eggs a week.


When I say 15% bone I take account that for instance chicken leg quarters are around 30% bone. So I would need 5.4 ounces of bone. Which would equate to just under 20 ounces of chicken leg quarter for that day
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 01:59 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Slamdunc View Post
Yes, that is too much liver in one feeding. I would look into other organ sources and not feed liver everyday. I may feed 1 1/2 ounces of liver in one feeding for a 75 lb adult dog getting 48 ounces of food. I do not feed liver everyday. I do add pureed vegetables into my dogs food, I also add a frozen organ meat blend in.

I would need to know more about what you are feeding in total to have an idea if your diet is good and balanced.
I forgot to add I feed him some fruits here and there, he loves blueberries lol but doesn’t like bananas too much hah

Thanks man, I’m Definitly taking your advice, like I said I feel guilty making him eat kibble even though I know it’s probably one of the better brands.

If you have any other suggestions on meaty bones, muscle meats or organs please share haha I love reading about how people are feeding raw. Always good to gather ideas because that just means I can give more of a variety to him.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 09:07 AM
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Agree with Slamdunc. Sounds like your proportions aren't right. I did a spreadsheet based on NRC requirements for my dog and the 80/10/10 was "close" but missing so many nutrients like zinc, iodine, selenium and my calcium/phos ratio was pretty off before crunching the numbers..

why don't you put him on a commercial raw for now while he's growing and take the time to really figure out the nutrition?




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