grain free vs RAW - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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grain free vs RAW

I think I may be having a problem truly understanding the basic ideas of what is safe for a puppy.

Too much protein? Too much Calcium? Too much Phos? What is truly the MAX amount on this? I can't imagine there is a maximum amount on protein or RAW wouldn't be safe for pups either.

I am trying to find a grain free food that is safe for a puppy and Orijen is not available in my area. I have been reading up on EVO and other brands that are grain free...
and I read conflicting things. Claims these types of foods are the closest thing to RAW. So I guess my question once and for all is... how is it that RAW is safe for all stages but something like grain free is not? Somehow I missing something very fundamental about protein levels and the like. I am going frustrated with the do' and don'ts and need some one to spell it out.

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Renee'

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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 10:27 AM
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I think you have reached a point where you have to concern yourself with science which many people here have not taken it to that extreme. With that said most people are just happy to know what are the best kibble for our dog's/ puppies.
I think most will agree Orijen is at the top even if you choose their puppy food but for the most part you want to choose a large breed puppy food. There are many answers to your question in several other threads but for the most part you want to feed your dog the best you are willing to pay for.
Orijen
Blue Buffalo LBP
Wellness LBP
Innova LBP
Solid Gold LBP
On a tight budget try from Cosco Kirklands LBP
These are food that are very good for your dog but it still depends on your dog how they do on top of the line kibble. You should slowly like over 3 weeks time add your new food to their old food increasing the amount of new every 3 days or so.
As far as raw a lot of people feel it is the best and relate the diet to those of wolves in the wild it is not rocket science. This diet does take more time so again it comes down to how much time and effort you are willing to go through.
I feed 2 meals a day and 1 meal is raw . By doing this I feel I get the best of both worlds and when I go on vacation nobody has to deal with raw foods for the week we are gone. hope that helps. just don't over think it to much.
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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 10:32 AM
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I'm not going to attempt to spell it out, because it just causes controversy. The one fact I find is, there are loads of opinions out there and by and large, everyone has pretty darn healthy dogs here. To keep your life simple, I truly believe that just settling on a great high-end grainless will yield you a really healthy dog. After that, I think we tend to be splitting hairs. For whatever it's worth, I've had great success (and peace of mind) feeding mostly dry grainless and supplementing with half a turkey neck or some ground beef or a few chicken livers, rotated in. Of three feedings a day, I'll make one of them a little less kibble and the raw meat. If I don't happen to have raw meat on a given day, I don't fret it and just feed the kibble. Otherwise it's just too much for me to want to hassle with and I know Max is getting fed really well. That's what I do.
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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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So is it the additives that make grain free not safe for puppies? (except Orijen) It can't be the protein levels because as I said RAW wouldn't make a lick of sense. Basically my end goal with Jake is to have him the closest thing I can get to RAW.

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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:19 AM
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I would think that the closest (although nothing is truly the same) thing to raw is a high meat content canned food, like EVO red meat (95%). I say that because of the high meat and water content. That said, who wants to feed only canned?? Orijen is, imo, the closest of the dry kibbles... although most raw people will probably argue that there is no comparison.

I remain comfortable with feeding one really good staple dry (orijen) as the constant and it's pretty easy to throw a 1/3lb of ground beef or a couple chicken livers in with it every few feedings. If you don't want to put anything raw at all in his bowl, buy boneless skinless chicken thighs (pretty cheap) and simmer them in water for about 30 minutes. You can chop them up, bag them in small single feed portions and keep some in the fridge and some in the freezer. That is, after you find out that he has no priblem with chicken! Otherwise, you could do the very same thing with beef, lamb or pork.
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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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again, is it the cal/phos levels that make other grain-free unsafe for pups?

Renee'

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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:25 AM
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I believe your science answer is in here several times.
https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum...py-food-s.html

As far as a kibble as close to raw as you can get is not happening. RAW IS RAW no kibble will compete with that. example...
Feed a dog crapy food then feed him a quality kibble and here are things that the eyes can see change.. less poop, firmer poop, change in color, richer color, eyes white and clear, shinny coat, more energy, just to name a few plus what benefits are going on ,on the inside.
Now feed raw.. less poop, cleaner teeth, colors even more rich, healthier coat just to name a few.
Kibble is kibble , raw is raw.
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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:32 AM
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LOL... ok, I don't buy the idea that any of the better foods we've been discussing are "unsafe" in any meaningful way. Unsafe just seems like a fairly gross overstatement. From what I understand, you want a food that has well under 2% cal, about 1.5-1.6ish. Phos should be balanced well at a .1/.2 over 1%. Again though, I suspect that there is quite some hair splitting happening.

If you took 2 pups and raised one on orijen LBP and one on adult, everything else being equal, I'd bet the farm that both dogs would be in nearly equal health and condition.
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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And in your opinion would that be true of EVO or other grainfree that are great quality?

Renee'

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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 11:44 AM
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My only reservation about EVO is this certainty that everyone has that P&G is going to downgrade the formula. Not to beat a dead horse, but I am very impressed with Orijen because Max does so well on it and also because if their story can be believed, they really seem ultra quality oriented in a way that makes me happy.
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