Eekkk, my cousin just got an Italian Mastiff - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Eekkk, my cousin just got an Italian Mastiff

and it was on Puppy Chow when he got it and he's gonna switch to Eukanuba LB puppy.

I had to write to him and tell him to try Orijen Puppy and told him where to get it. I REALLY hope he listens to me, but I'm not holding my breath. You know how men are and well.... I'm just a girl, what do I know?

It's not like I haven't driven all over the surrounding townships looking, pricing and comparing and talking here.

Where I get my Orijen is the ONLY place I can find it, and the price is less than the other they sell at Petco and other pets stores. I've looked in to Nurto, Wellness Core, all of them... I get 15.6 lbs of Orijen Puppy for 30 bucks and I can get 28 lbs for like 50. I've seen Wellness Core for like 60 dollars for the 28lbs.

Zeva Female GSD 10/02/2009
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 05:54 PM
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You have to be extremely careful with Giant Breed Puppies that their growth is very slow. My family had a very successful kennel and raised AKC champion Mastiffs in the late80s and 90s. Believe it our not, we raised our dogs back then on Pedigree. Not what we use now or would recommend since there are so many better foods on the market now, but what was actually great about the Pedigree was that it had so little usable nutritional content that it really ensured slow growth.

I would actually strongly recommend avoiding a high protein food for a giant breed puppy. In general it's recommended not to go above 26%.

Puppy Foods Large Giant Breeds | GREATDANELADY.COM

Bianka vom Eisernen Loewen IPO3, CGC, TC 1-3-08
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Last edited by JKlatsky; 02-16-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks. I removed my comment from his site. Is there a brand you would recommend? Just wondering.

Zeva Female GSD 10/02/2009
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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What is the size difference that makes a Large breed or a Giant breed? What about the protein content in the food I feed Zeva? Orijen Puppy is 40% and so is the LB Puppy. Is THAT too much? TOTW is 32%. Evo is like 42%.

I think Zeva will go to about 80-85#. She's 40 as of today and she'll be 20 wks on Friday.

Because we think she's going to be so big, should I feed her something different? She had worms for like a month after getting her cause I struggled to get them under control and also, she isn't a huge "food" dog. She has been eating more and more and I'm getting really close to being out of food.

I'm interested in a food from Tractor Supply that looks pretty good. It's called 4health and contains no corn, wheat or soy. They do carry a puppy formula and I almost got some today but they only sell it in 35 lb bags, which was 30 bucks. Protein is 27% min. 4health Puppy Formula Dog Food, 18 lb. - 5138507 | Tractor Supply Company

4Health Dog Food Review and Rating

Zeva Female GSD 10/02/2009
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKlatsky View Post

I would actually strongly recommend avoiding a high protein food for a giant breed puppy. In general it's recommended not to go above 26%.

Puppy Foods Large Giant Breeds | GREATDANELADY.COM
well, the Great Dane Lady says 26%, but i dont agree with her logic. she cites what pups would get in the wild. even though they cant hunt yet, they are still eating raw meat. some so called experts claim wild pups are eating an even higher protein content than what is in the highest protein kibbles. now, if she wants to say high protein kibbles are a no no because of the high calcium levels most of them have, then she has a valid point. however in that case it is not the high protein in itself that is the problem, and there are a select few kibbles that are higher protein but not high in Ca.

i agree with some of her points, but the truth is a kibble with a high meat content (which she seems to say is important) is going to have a higher protein content than 26%. caloric intake should be limited as much as possible with any large/giant breed, but i think high quality meat content is important while keeping the calcium levels as minimal as possible.

that is why EVO, TOTW, NV Instinct should not be fed to a puppy...because they do carry the higher Ca levels along with the high protein. personally, i think unless one want to feed Orijen Puppy Large (which somehow manges to keep the Ca levels lower), then they should just forego any thoughts on grain free food until their pup is at least 12-14 month old.

Derek

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Frisco (gsd) 6/21/02
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKlatsky View Post
You have to be extremely careful with Giant Breed Puppies that their growth is very slow. My family had a very successful kennel and raised AKC champion Mastiffs in the late80s and 90s. Believe it our not, we raised our dogs back then on Pedigree. Not what we use now or would recommend since there are so many better foods on the market now, but what was actually great about the Pedigree was that it had so little usable nutritional content that it really ensured slow growth.

I would actually strongly recommend avoiding a high protein food for a giant breed puppy. In general it's recommended not to go above 26%.

Puppy Foods Large Giant Breeds | GREATDANELADY.COM
I'm just curious how high protein diets would contribute to a high rate of growth, I can understand the high calcium content and over feeding a dog promoting unhealthy growth rates, however protein has the same amount of energy per gram as carbohydrates.

I agree with you roxy.

-Kira

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 07:02 PM
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Orijen is a higher calorie food. I'm not disputing the quality of it, but personally with giant breed dogs I prefer a lower calorie food. And as pointed out, most of the other grain-free high protein foods do not have appropriate levels of calcium for puppies.

I like the Wellness LB puppy food.

Bianka vom Eisernen Loewen IPO3, CGC, TC 1-3-08
Cade vom Eisernen Loewen IPO1, CGC 3-25-09
D'Artagnan (Tag) vom Eisernen Loewen BH 2-2-10
G Aiko von Burkndeiros SchH 3, IPO3, FH, TC, KKL2 9-17-02 (Retired)


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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 07:14 PM
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I think that this website explains well why super high protein foods are less recommended for giant breed puppies. You don't have to agree. It's just a different perspective.

Large Breed Puppy Diet Recommendations

Bianka vom Eisernen Loewen IPO3, CGC, TC 1-3-08
Cade vom Eisernen Loewen IPO1, CGC 3-25-09
D'Artagnan (Tag) vom Eisernen Loewen BH 2-2-10
G Aiko von Burkndeiros SchH 3, IPO3, FH, TC, KKL2 9-17-02 (Retired)


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:29 PM
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if i feed 3 cups of orijen at 480 calories a cup versus 5 cups of a lower calorie food with a likely lower meat content (say, 350 calories/cup) to maintain an ideal weight, the dog eating the lower calorie food has taken in about 300 more calories/day than the dog eating the higher calorie food. worse yet, because more cups were needed with the lower calorie food, more fat was consumed as well.

additionally, 400 calories of one food may be more well utilized by a dogs digestive process (ie less waste produced) than 400 calories of another food. why would this occur? the source of the calores: lots of fillers/grains vs lots of meat, which we know our dogs were designed to digest effectively.

my experience has been that the foods that are well utilized are the higher calorie foods, and i would owe much of that to them usually having a higher meat content.

so, it is my humble opinion that many of the lower calorie foods will not reduce the overall daily caloric intake and may in fact cause a greater intake of things (such as fat) one would want to avoid in a large breed pup.

Derek

owned by:
Kimba (gsd) 5/9/07
Saby the mutt~1/15/01
Frisco (gsd) 6/21/02
Luka (feline)d.o.b.~2004
RIP-canines-Buddy, Roxy, Kujo, Kato, Pierre
felines-Chanel, Panther, TJ

Last edited by roxy84; 02-16-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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