Well that didn't work! The prong collar lessons - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 32Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Strom View Post
I didn't choose my words very well, I was hunting around for that video. My only point was the leash pressure stuff really doesn't have much to do with the way you went out to use the collar. If you were going to go that route with it, which to me seems like a waste of time, you needed to stick with that use.

That video shows a pretty simple intro to the entire action of a correction. You can end up with the collar itself not being that important. A fursaver will get the same reaction from your dog as a prong or anything else. The total picture of it will keep it clear for her.
I did watch the video, thanks for that. I will watch it a few more times tonight. I get the concept. I just thought it was 'nicer' to let her know what she the prong was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperG View Post
Sounds just like how my girl was.....pretty intimidating and certainly sending her best signals to the other dog.....you don't want to mess with me attitude no doubt. Has she ever come up the leash at you during her antics? or blindly bitten you during her bouts of directed aggression at the other dog?

SuperG
Yes. She will redirect. It's funny though, she nailed me good a few times and I responded not well. Even freaking out, she will now temper her snaps at me to something that stings but doesn't do damage. But on the whole she has no problem biting people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Strom View Post
How about an ecollar? Its easier on your shoulders and the impersonal nature of it makes it less stress for you and less for her to feed off.
I tried the ecollar a few years back. I screwed up and she got collar wise. If I put one on her even now, she just glues herself to me and will not leave. I over did the recall training because it seemed inconceivable to me that she got it in two tries.
This dog is smart. Really smart. And she has me totally trained.
Sabis mom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 03:15 PM
Elite Member
 
Muskeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mountains
Posts: 1,716
I'd suggest trying the e-collar again, except layer it over leash pressure and corrections this time and leave it on her for a few days if you have to get her un-collar wise. I don't do the low stim stuff with the e-collar, I use it as a correction, once the dog knows and understands corrections and the command I'm pairing it with.
Muskeg is offline  
post #23 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,268
I described Shadow as a sweet, smart dog with no coping skills.

Even mild, harmless stimulus gets a completely over the top reaction.

I have never believed and still don't that this is an aggressive dog. Or a dog that is a waste. I believe that this is a dog who honestly believes that she is in mortal danger from other dogs and is going on the offensive, fighting for her life in her mind. I hesitated over the prong because I didn't want to add to that sense of fear with a painful correction.

But...

If I can't control her, we are at a standstill. I need to be able to walk her to convince her no harm will come to her and in order to walk her I need to be able to control her.
Again, I have owned this dog literally all her life. I have studied her and watched her reactions all her life. She is genuinely afraid. I have no doubt that in the hands of a better person she could be something spectacular. Catch 22. In the hands of a more experienced person she may well have been put down that first night, and maybe I did her a disservice by keeping her alive, but that ship has sailed. I love this little dog beyond all reason, have from the second I first held her in my hands.
So here we are, doing the best we can.
Traveler's Mom and dogma13 like this.
Sabis mom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 06:30 PM
Crowned Member
 
LuvShepherds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,028
Why aren't you using a trainer? We can only help so much on a message board. When you don't know how to use a training tool and your dog is acting out, the only solution is a good trainer who can observe you and your dog and help you figure out the best way to teach her that other dogs are not a threat.
MineAreWorkingline likes this.
LuvShepherds is offline  
post #25 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvShepherds View Post
Why aren't you using a trainer? We can only help so much on a message board. When you don't know how to use a training tool and your dog is acting out, the only solution is a good trainer who can observe you and your dog and help you figure out the best way to teach her that other dogs are not a threat.
Because even if I had the money to pay for a trainer, the trainers in this area mostly fall into two groups. Clicker or teach her who's boss. And the first thing they all say is get her spayed then come back. I have been told that she is just poorly bred and should be put down, I have been told to get rid of her, I have even been offered a replacement.

No trainers.
Sabis mom is offline  
post #26 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 08:36 PM
Crowned Member
 
SuperG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Great White North
Posts: 4,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post
I have been told that she is just poorly bred and should be put down, I have been told to get rid of her, I have even been offered a replacement.

No trainers.

That sound harsh.....hard to believe you have to deal with that.....I'd reach out farther.

SuperG
MineAreWorkingline likes this.

Hündin 32CACT, 2334CSAT, 2016 GAA 2.85
SuperG is offline  
post #27 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 09:09 PM
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lake Tahoe Area
Posts: 1,347
I just wonder if you work really hard on consistency and clarity that you won't get her through the adjustment period. I think that she did not generalize the work you did inside with the prong to going to the outside. It was as if it was a brand new thing to her. (Dogs are bad at generalizing on their own) I just wonder about staging some walks with a friends' dogs at a distance that you can help her get used to the idea of "behave and do your job or get a correction."
Consistency and persistence.

I have a rescue GSD that has a pretty strong fight or flight reaction. Pretty dramatic when she is scared. We have worked with an ecollar and initially she freaked. I kept her at low stim and she got used to it. I know it was not hurting her (at a 8 or 10 I can stim myself and barely feel it). She wears a bark collar when I'm not here and she has access to the outside. It is at the lowest stim level. First couple of times it totally freaked her out. Now she takes the collar fine and at times barks through the stim but doesn't do that incessant barking. She is fine now with it. Just kept with it because she needs to do her job.

One other thing I thought of is that the cheap chinese made prongs are a bit sharp. I would only work with a Herm Sprenger. The prongs are not sharp and the quality is so much better. Those cheap ones scare me.

Good luck.

Karin
Dutch Shepherd - Ptygo (Tee-Go) de las Flores
Rescue GSD - Freyja (Husband's Dog)
DutchKarin is offline  
post #28 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,268
The comments have been repeated numerous times Super G.

We will continue to work with the prong, I will keep trying to get better at it. We went for a walk today and did ok. But no other dogs appeared. I won't give up on her, she isn't giving up on me.
Sabis mom is offline  
post #29 of 66 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 09:29 PM
Crowned Member
 
SuperG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Great White North
Posts: 4,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabis mom View Post

We will continue . I won't give up on her, she isn't giving up on me.
Never doubted you for a second...you've got a great heart for the dog you share your life with....

SuperG

Hündin 32CACT, 2334CSAT, 2016 GAA 2.85
SuperG is offline  
post #30 of 66 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
Crowned Member
 
Sabis mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,268
Couple more short sessions today. Mostly in the yard, working on paying attention. She did good. All the birds flying around and she stayed focused on me. Went for a little tour around the block. Worked on her ignoring people, she still wants to watch them, ears are flicking, but she kept her eyes forward and stayed on a loose leash by my side.
It amazes me that she can split her focus like that. I can't trick her with direction changes or speed changes, but she is clearly paying attention to the person walking behind us.
In the yard, I get her to focus by tucking a toy under my arm and she does fantastic off leash. But I haven't been able to translate that to outside the gate, obviously on leash.
Sabis mom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome