Attention to those who feed Victor Dog food - Page 8 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #71 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 11:01 AM
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I think as of right now they're pretty sure something is blocking taurine absorption. Because the dogs can have adequate taurine but don't absorb any of it. So just supplementing or feeding more doesn't help the dog get better because taurine absorption is actively being blocked. But maybe there are multiple causes resulting in the same condition?
Do you have documentation of that?

If please post it in the DCM thread so the yopic ofbtjis thread isnt changed . The last official documentation I read had several theories but no answer.




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post #72 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 12:29 PM
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I wonder if it is something totally unrelated. Given the breed commonalities I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition, only.

Affluent people tend to feed specialty foods. So far, findings may only prove correlation between being more wealthy, owning a purebred that wealthy people in suburbs tend toward, and feeding "the best" food possible. Perhaps rich golden retriever owners are all buying from somewhat common lines that carry an as yet unknown genetic propensity to DCM.

Just throwing that out there...but I think it could make sense.
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post #73 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 01:19 PM
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I wonder if it is something totally unrelated. Given the breed commonalities I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition, only.

Affluent people tend to feed specialty foods. So far, findings may only prove correlation between being more wealthy, owning a purebred that wealthy people in suburbs tend toward, and feeding "the best" food possible. Perhaps rich golden retriever owners are all buying from somewhat common lines that carry an as yet unknown genetic propensity to DCM.

Just throwing that out there...but I think it could make sense.
I definitely think there is a genetic component.




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post #74 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Saco View Post
I wonder if it is something totally unrelated. Given the breed commonalities I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition, only.

Affluent people tend to feed specialty foods. So far, findings may only prove correlation between being more wealthy, owning a purebred that wealthy people in suburbs tend toward, and feeding "the best" food possible. Perhaps rich golden retriever owners are all buying from somewhat common lines that carry an as yet unknown genetic propensity to DCM.

Just throwing that out there...but I think it could make sense.
They have been finding it in mutts and other breeds and diet changes have reversed it.

In the articles I've read they have mentioned that certain breeds may already have issues with taurine and so are more sensitive to foods causing issues with taurine whether it be from not containing enough or whatever is going on. But the emphasis on that is that they are higher risk for developing it and/or maybe just develop it sooner than other dogs would on the same diet but it's still the diet causing issues.
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post #75 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 07:41 PM
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In the articles I've read they have mentioned that certain breeds may already have issues with taurine and so are more sensitive to foods causing issues with taurine whether it be from not containing enough or whatever is going on. But the emphasis on that is that they are higher risk for developing it and/or maybe just develop it sooner than other dogs would on the same diet but it's still the diet causing issues.
Actually, if you read the actual science journal article (as opposed to internet articles putting a spin on it), there is no proof of causation as to any ingredients yet. It's just correlation. And reverse causation and spurious correlation haven't been ruled out yet in the published veterinary research. Confounding variables are also possibly in play.

The UC Davis researchers' article was preliminary and speculative IMHO. They have nothing -- literally nothing -- but correlation and hypothesis. Breed, gut flora, amount fed, and ingredients are all on the table for the researchers, and the best GUESS is it will be some constellation of multiple of these, but it could yet end up being unrelated. The people researching the problem haven't identified causation yet. That hasn't stopped Internet nobodies (and even some vet nutritionists on the payroll of certain food companies) from claiming to know things the UC Davis researchers working on the problem don't actually know though.

Play with the Google doc spreadsheet and control for Goldens to filter them out to see for yourself how complex this is. Some of the remaining mutts are Golden Doodles. Then there's not much left. I found working with the data filters is enormously eye opening.


To put it into perspective as to why diet doesn't necessarily equal across-the-board causation when there are underlying genetics potentially in play, think about Celiac disease. I eat gluten daily. I love bread, and I delight in gluten-containing grains. My genes reflect generations of wheat-eaters in Europe. I digest it well, and it agrees with me. Whole grains with gluten are a staple in my diet -- I'm happy to eat a bowl of cooked wheatberries or bulgur. What makes me thrive though would make someone with Celiac very ill. It's not that wheat bread causes illness uniformly, but rather that some humans can't digest the gluten in it. Same with lactose intolerance. I don't think it would be all that surprising if there's something like that going on in the dog world -- we know they're sometimes pretty individual in the food they do best on, so maybe there's a gene we don't yet know about that is not playing well with some ingredient in kibble in a few of them. All hypothesis....but food for thought!
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post #76 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:27 PM
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@Magwart - yup. You read what I read.




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post #77 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 11:53 AM
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Can someone give me the TLDR version of this thread? Should I continue using Victor?

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post #78 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 12:05 PM
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LOL, Arathorn -- depends whom you ask:


Version 1: They added more legumes and took critical nutritional info off the website, so they seem to be hiding something; it might kill my dog by giving it a heart disease that the FDA warned about being linked to legumes in dog food; I must find a replacement food without legumes because I don't trust this company any longer.


Version 2: I called and talked to Victor, found out changes were minimal, necessary to appease AAFCO due to a rule change, and the website info will come back in a few weeks after the lab verifies it; nobody's proven any ingredient connection with that FDA warning and I'm not buying into Internet scare mongering until there's solid science supporting it; I still trust them, so I'm going to keep feeding it as long as it keeps agreeing with my dogs.


You must decide for yourself whether it's working for your dog, where you fall on the legume controversy, and how it works for your dog. Reasonable people here are coming to different conclusions.
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post #79 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 10:11 AM
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LOL, Arathorn -- depends whom you ask:


Version 1: They added more legumes and took critical nutritional info off the website, so they seem to be hiding something; it might kill my dog by giving it a heart disease that the FDA warned about being linked to legumes in dog food; I must find a replacement food without legumes because I don't trust this company any longer.


Version 2: I called and talked to Victor, found out changes were minimal, necessary to appease AAFCO due to a rule change, and the website info will come back in a few weeks after the lab verifies it; nobody's proven any ingredient connection with that FDA warning and I'm not buying into Internet scare mongering until there's solid science supporting it; I still trust them, so I'm going to keep feeding it as long as it keeps agreeing with my dogs.


You must decide for yourself whether it's working for your dog, where you fall on the legume controversy, and how it works for your dog. Reasonable people here are coming to different conclusions.
Not all Victor dog food contains legumes to clarify - only the Grain free products.
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post #80 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 12:41 PM
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My pet feed store still carries the original bag of victor right now so I happy. I noticed even the original fromm bag when they made some changes. They must have huge stock.


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