FDA: Dog Foods & Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy - Page 22 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #211 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 09:17 AM
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Yes good reads thanks for posting!


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post #212 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 09:59 AM
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The take home should also be that they still do not know what is causing this. The number of dogs per breed are disproportionate based on owners reporting it. That the Goldens are already known to have a genetic predisposition. That the foods with the highest number reported were single protein and most of them were chicken based (lighter meats have less taurine content to begin with. Red meats such as beef are higher).
@Jenny720 - I"ll message you on FB and send you what a good friend who is in the industry wrote. Regardless of what some think, there is not a conspiracy to keep information from owners and the pet food industry is finding out information at the same time as everyone else.
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post #213 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 11:23 AM
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That would be great Michelle much appreciate thank you.

Yeah the interesting thing Europe is not seeing these issues not that I know of. Also to see the golden ret shows genetic factor is quite large. It is surprising to see a the very popular Science diet and Purina grainfree dog food not on this list with all peas in the first few ingredients and limited poultry protei. Everyone is always learning including experts and always good to see some type of progression. I hope to see the dog food industry continue to follow suit.


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post #214 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 11:54 AM
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I highly recommend reading the vet journal retraction request submitted to JAVMA from someone who writes about junk science and happens to own a so-called "BEG" dog food company:
https://www.veterinaryintegrity.org/...CKAGE-jn5c.pdf


It's summarized here: https://www.veterinaryintegrity.org/


The JAVMA article that exploded concern over this apparently slipped in as an opinion piece, without peer-review or disclosure of financial conflicts of interest. Dr. Freeman and her co-authors, and Tufts Nutrition generally, aren't looking good in this retraction request. The allegations are really fascinating. I'm really interested to see how Freeman et al. respond.
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post #215 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 12:01 PM
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I have a slightly tangential question that's been in the back of my mind for several months and the FDA report has finally prompted me to ask it.


The breeder we got Duke from back in 2010 had him on Solid Gold Wolf Cub and we've had him on Solid Gold ever since (Wolf King now), mixed with some boiled chicken and a splash of the broth it was boiled in. He loves it, has done well on it, and it didn't make the list (whew!). Our other dog (mixed) is 16.5 years old now and very near the end (though it seems like he's been near the end for the past year and is still hanging in). In anticipation of his passing and the fact that Duke may not take it very well (Yeah, yeah, I know, it's just an excuse for why I want to get a second shepherd), I've been paying attention to the dry dog food recommendations that come up in the various threads, because the odds are the pup will have been started on a different kibble and I'll have to switch one or the other of them (and based on the lack of recommendations, till now I thought it would likely be Duke away from Solid Gold). Several of the most often recommended kibbles here are on the list and Solid Gold, which isn't (peas and potatoes are 4 & 5 on the ingredients. Bison, fish meal, brown rice are the first 3. Salmon oil & Taurine are further down the list), is never mentioned here though it looks good to my uneducated eye.



So, the question is why does Solid Gold not get any respect? What am I missing about it?
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post #216 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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FDA Update to DCM Investigation clarifies a few things

Susan Thixton rearranges the 1st graph data into categories of manufacturer's..... and the numbers look a bit different. see 2nd graph

https://truthaboutpetfood.com/fda-up...-a-few-things/


Pet owners have – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – been told far too many times that the cases of DCM were directly linked to boutique brands of pet food. Thanks to this FDA update we know that information wasn’t very accurate. The U.S. leaders in pet food sales are Mars, Purina, General Mills, Smuckers and Diamond; all listed with high numbers of FDA DCM reports.


Pet owners have also been repeatedly told – previous to this June 2019 FDA update – that exotic protein ingredients were directly linked to cases of DCM. This update proves that information wasn’t very accurate either. The FDA provides this information on protein types linked to DCM cases: see graph #3


What would have been a proper investigation by FDA (but hasn’t been discussed thus far), is determination of the quality of the Chicken, Lamb, Salmon and so on ingredients of each pet food.


Example: when “Chicken” is listed on a pet food label ingredient panel – the ingredient can be USDA inspected and passed chicken, USDA inspected and condemned chicken, whole chicken, chicken bones (no meat), chicken skin (no meat) and/or a slew of other types of chicken.


Also, the FDA did not clarify if in the above chart “Chicken” or “Lamb” is chicken or chicken meal or lamb or lamb meal which have quality variations as well.
It would be very telling information for pet owners to learn the quality of the animal protein ingredients used in the pet foods reported to FDA.


Interesting to see how to see how the information is presented on this!


To be continued!
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post #217 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-28-2019, 07:42 PM
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Susan's rearrangement is "interesting" but as statistically useless as what the FDA released. There's a good comment left by someone on her website about the need to normalize the data. I get that she's not a statistician, but it wouldn't be hard to get get someone with a hard science/math background to help if she could get the raw data. What she's doing is generating more misleading conclusions -- she is criticizing the FDA for doing that and then replicating the same type of math mistake.


To put it very simply: the vast majority of dog food contains chicken, right? It's the cheapest protein found in far and away the greatest number of foods. Thus, EVEN IF DCM ENDS UP BEING TOTALLY UNRELATED TO FOOD you would still see far more dogs who eat chicken among dogs with DCM, just because that's what most dogs eat. All she may be showing is the market share of various proteins....not that those proteins have anything to do with the disease. Same goes for grain-free manfacturing -- when you start stacking brands made in plants and market share the way she did, it shouldn't be a surprise to see cases grow...with marketshare representation. All of this can be controlled for...and it would be a lot more interesting if it were.
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post #218 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:48 PM
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Confusion

I've had too many experiences with dcm...I've lost 3 precious Dobermans to this horrendous disease. My last Dobe died in February of this year. So when I was looking for another puppy I thought I have to get away from Dobes. I've had 6 in the last 25 years. So I settled on a GSD. His name is Igor. He is 7 months old and is doing great...I love the boy!

Here's the confusion....I thought a GSD would not be succeptible to dcm...I knew about the hip displasia...but dcm wouldn't be a worry...now the blasted fda says not so fast...I'm feeding Igor Nutra Max LBP....Nutro is on the fda list...now what????

I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this message....
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post #219 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 02:45 PM
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OK, now I'm just confused.

I am a bit familiar with statistics but it's been awhile. I know enough to understand how stats can be used to tell many different stories with the same data.

Is there in fact any proven connection or correlation between grain free foods and DCM? Or is this just a correlation between rich dog owners who can afford a purebred dog (eg. golden retriever) and buy the "best" grain-free food and also pay for and get the vet diagnosis for DCM? (or something else entirely?)

I don't feed grain-free and certainly won't now, but this whole thing seems to be similar to the vaccine -autism study that was proven wrong ... or am I missing something?
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post #220 of 250 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 02:58 PM
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I lost my girl Ebony, at just 2.5 years old, sudden collapse. I didn't have her necropsied. But I wonder sometimes if it was DCM. If so, she was eating TOTW as part of the rotation. I tend to doubt it had anything to do with the food but was something congenital.

But it would make sense to me that the uptick in DCM cases is because people have heard about DCM and then opt to get advanced Dx or have a necropsy. And that these types of people are more likely to feed boutique or grain free.

But what do I know... for me I didn't pursue a necropsy because of the cost, the emotional issues around it, and the fact that it wouldn't do anything to bring her back.


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