I have 2 German Shepherds ages 4 and 8 who have been cycling through all the TOTW proteins for years. The 4 year old has some hair loss on his ears (no mites) and an irritation/infection on his hip. The 8 year old has had 2 urinary infections in 8 months.The Vet is always lecturing me on dog foods and is requesting I change off TOTW to one of these 2 brands. I will try a food change but not to these 2 brands. Any other thoughts? Thanks.
She is suspicious that it might be a food allergy causing both the dry skin and irritations on one and the urinary tract infections on the other. I don't mind changing the foods,but not to crap. She told me to call Tufts Veterinary School.
Have the vet read the ingredients off the bag out loud. Than politely tell him to never lecture you on dog food again. Suggest that vet take some additional courses on pet nutrition and not to reply on the one course taught by Hills in vet school.
There are much better and more diplomatic ways to let a vet know that ones choice of food is based on ones own research. Also if the op is anywhere near my neck of the woods, this area is inundated with clinics owned under the largest vet franchise. Most of the ER hospitals immediately around here are franchise owned.
One needs to work with what they have until they choose to leave and has another put in place to go to.
Op, if you wish more specific info about my vets clinic, please feel free to pm me. There has been some good, there has been some not great but to their credit, they do listen to me and do back off concerning certain subjects. The last thing you want to do is alleinate them.
I wouldn't feed those either. The shelter I adopted Shelby from fed Science Diet. I bought some, until I could transition her to something else. She wouldn't eat it, so I decided I could use it as training treats for my hound dog. He eats ANYTHING. But, not even the hound would eat Science Diet. lol!
I feed TOTW Pacific Stream, which my 2 have done fine on. There are a lot of good quality foods you could try. If your vet suspects a food allergy, what about one of the limited ingredient foods?
Just my humble opinion but I think no matter what other kibble you change to, there may be a periodic push from your vet to switch to the kibble that they sell.
I can't comment on kibble as I've been raw feeding now for about 3yrs. My vet isn't thrilled with my choice.
Is the clinic recommending a RX food for some issue? E.g., hydrolyzed protein for food allergies, GI food for chronic diarrhea, kidney food because of UTIs, etc? If so, we need that info in order to help you figure out options. Some of the RX foods are just marketing bunk. Others are well studied and helpful for serious conditions. We need to know what your vet is actually recommending, to unwind what else is out there that would possibly accomplish the same goals.
I disagree that vets uses those foods because they get kickbacks or are ignorant. I have a dog on Hills right now for a short period of time after very bad illness. The ingredients are terrible. I pointed that out to the vet, who said, I am giving you this because it works. It does, very well. After a week of looking at all kinds of loose and smelly stools and vomit, I was willing to try anything. Once we are sure the symptoms are gone, I am going to transition back to a Fromm formula that will do the same thing but less dramatically.
There are different ways to treat skin problems without going to prescription diets. The one I am using now is full of grains that are notorious for causing itching and dry skin. Have you tried eliminating certain ingredients? Medicated baths?
I just bought a bag of TOTW Pacific Stream (the only TOTW with no chicken or eggs) and a bag of Limited Ingredient lamb California Natural. I'll start there. Thanks for the responses.
I should add, my dog was on TOTW for years and got a treatable illness last year which was possibly food related. We are not sure, though. I switched to Fromm which my other dog was on and have been very happy with it.
If it's an RX formula for the UTI, then it's worth asking what it does that's helpful, and how food is contributing to the UTIs.
With recurrent UTIs, unless it's already been cultured and sent out to test for antibiotic resistance, I would want to rule out antibiotic resistant bacteria! What can easily happen is that the UTI appears to be cured, but some of the bacteria survives. The survivors hide out, start reproducing and then reappear as a stronger and more dangerous infection.
With dryness issues, I would add some fish oil to the dog's meals, no matter what you feed. It's a low risk, easy fix for dry skin -- but it takes several weeks to see an improvement. You can toss in a human-grade fish oil supplement (Costco, Sam's Club, Walmart, etc.) into the kibble, or buy pour-in/squirt-in liquid supplements for pets.
If it's an RX formula for the UTI, then it's worth asking what it does that's helpful, and how food is contributing to the UTIs.
With recurrent UTIs, unless it's already been cultured and sent out to test for antibiotic resistance, I would want to rule out antibiotic resistant bacteria! What can easily happen is that the UTI appears to be cured, but some of the bacteria survives. The survivors hide out, start reproducing and then reappear as a stronger and more dangerous infection.
With dryness issues, I would add some fish oil to the dog's meals, no matter what you feed. It's a low risk, easy fix for dry skin -- but it takes several weeks to see an improvement. You can toss in a human-grade fish oil supplement (Costco, Sam's Club, Walmart, etc.) into the kibble, or buy pour-in/squirt-in liquid supplements for pets.
I fed both my previous girls on Hills as recommended by the vet for digestive and skin issues. It wasn't a permanent thing, just to stabilise the issues whilst I found a food that they were more tolerant of. In fact it was my vet that suggested that I change my first girl to 'Chappie'. Hugely reluctant and I have to say it wouldn't be my first choice now but I have to say her digestive issues cleared up completely. So I now think you should feed your dog the best food you can afford but sometimes that doesn't make it the best food for your dog.
The vet guessed our former GSD, Jake to be two when we rescued him.
He was emaciated and had some stomach issues, diarrhea and very little appetite.
The vet recommended Royal Canin GSD (not prescription). Jake was on that food for about 10 years and he lived a very healthy life. No stomach issues and no skin issues.
When we got him he looked like a cayote but over time grew into a beautiful looking dog.
I’m sure the food had something to do with Jake’s good health.
I’ve only heard negative comments ab the food on this forum and I absolutely trust the opinion of a couple members who have posted here.
So maybe the recipe has changed the past 4 years.
A lot has been learned about dog food recently. Even though the prescription ingredients are not my first choice, if a dog has a condition or illness and the food clears it up, it works. I hesitate to tell anyone to defy their vet’s instructions unless they are certain the vet does not have their dogs health as their most important consideration.
The disclosures about the Mars petfood division (which owns RC, Nutro, and Pedigree, among others) on the Truth About Petfood are jaw-dropping. Read the full deposition transcripts over there to get a picture of this manufacturer's ingredient sourcing, as told by an employee under oath in a legal proceeding. It's possible there's higher standards for the RX food, but it's also possible that there's not. It's hard to know.
I have been feeding RC for years with great results, right now my rescue is on the so urinary for crystals, everything is cleared up, no diarrhea or stomach upsets ever with this food and great soft hair...
I would never put my dogs on the same food,month after month,year after year,so I'm doing the TOTW Pacific Stream followed by California Natural for now.
Vet just reiterated the opinion on Science Diet and Royal Canin after I told her I'd switched to California Natural til I figure out what's next. I mentioned raw and she said they have fired clients for continuing with raw while the dog was obviously not handling it.
Sounds like your vet is close minded and a control freak. I would love on to one that worked with me in a partnership for the well being of my animals.
So the vet has made the point that she wants the dogs on Royal Canin for 8 weeks,says that's the food she has seen make the biggest difference in all kinds of ailments in her 20 years of practicing. I had just transitioned them to 4Health,so I'm going to do it for 8 weeks. Interestingly,I went back and forth with her about grain free diets and a week later there were anti-grain free posters all over her practice. I believe in grain-free for humans but my dogs do get a little rice and pasta thrown in here and there.
Because a vet is treating ailments or symptoms of things, I bet the food was only 1 part of any treatment plan the vet proscribed for anything, and even in the odd chance it was, it could have been a simple upgrade from ol'roy or something. Ask her where she studied nutrition. The most honest vets I've dealt with always admit it was about a 1 week course based completely on dog food company research, so they're dependent on that, just like drug company research for other things.
She's not claiming anything except her 20 years of experience with possible food allergies and success with Royal Canin. August had ear hair falling off and a hotspot on his hip. No mites or infections. Fritz had chronic bladder/urethra inflammation. Both were fed all the TOTW proteins for 4 years. They are both off TOTW and right now things seem to be improving.
Just to follow up on my OP. 3 months later and the dogs have been on 4Health for 2 months and all the issues are gone. Sad sidenote. August's ear itchiness resulted in a left ear contusion that has resulted in a partially floppy ear.
If you are considering Royal Canin hydrolyzed protein from the vet (for a food allergy), you might as well look at Diamond Care at half the price. Diamond makes TOTW, 4Health, Costco's Kirkland and countless other foods. They bought a company that makes hydroylzed protein food -- and they now sell it for about $40/bag. If other limited ingredient food (like Wellness Simple, etc.) doesn't help, hydrolyzed protein foods sometimes do.
They have a new line that's targeted at RX food buyers -- it's available from Chewy and other online food sites. Some of the formulas don't require an RX (sensitive skin, sensitive stomach), other do (renal formula): https://diamondcarepetfood.com/
This is at least a lower cost option for those who find the RX foods to be terribly expensive (I've known vets to charge $80+ for 20 pound bags, but prices vary widely).
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