Is the amount of carbs in THK base mixes bad? - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Is the amount of carbs in THK base mixes bad?

Titan eats the preference base mix and was wondering if the amount of carbs(about 60% I believe) would be bad.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-2017, 07:51 PM
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You add meat to it. You don't feed only base mix. The carbs are from whole foods. I've fed it to one of mine for about 3 years now, and he's doing fantastic.

Some people theorize that dogs don't need fruit and veg. There's absolutely no data to support the proposition either way -- zero, zip, nada. Anyone who claims to "know" is basing knowledge on supposition or anecdotal experiences, not science. Good controlled, double-blind feeding trials of raw alone vs. raw with fruit/veg vs. kibble haven't been done.

Look at the dog in front of you. How's he doing on it?
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 06:31 AM
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You add meat to it. You don't feed only base mix. The carbs are from whole foods. I've fed it to one of mine for about 3 years now, and he's doing fantastic.

Some people theorize that dogs don't need fruit and veg. There's absolutely no data to support the proposition either way -- zero, zip, nada. Anyone who claims to "know" is basing knowledge on supposition or anecdotal experiences, not science. Good controlled, double-blind feeding trials of raw alone vs. raw with fruit/veg vs. kibble haven't been done.

Look at the dog in front of you. How's he doing on it?
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Im interested in the base mix and how much meat to add
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 08:42 AM
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this is a concentrated mix which will have the % diluted once you add it to the base ingredients which would be the meaty bones and fat

then again there are valuable , health supportive , important whole foods which are "carb" and then there are
"junk food" empty calories carbs --- so the question is what are those carbs

sniffing out trends - are you adopting the most recent one ?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-05-2017, 05:18 PM
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I guess it depends on what theory of diet you follow.

Carbs can be a bi controversial. Yes dogs can digest them and derive energy from them, they have actually evolved to be able to digest starch in ways that wild canids cannot. Carbs are an affordable source of energy (Kcals) and if you choose your carb source wisely you can get an extra nutritional punch (Like if you pick a sweet potato based food you get a nice dose of caratenoids)

However, there is a school of thought that carbs = sugar. And excess dietary sugar is bad bad bad news.

There is quite a bit of research out there on this topic. You can just go to scholar.google.com and type in carbohydrates + any chronic health condition you can imagine and chances are that there has been research done that finds a link. Especially with the refined carbs. Notably, there is the carb and cancer link. High carb diets can be rather inflammatory and promote microbial flora imbalance.

Of, course, many dogs do well on higher carbs. I personally, prefer a lower carb diet for my dogs. The food I put in their dish is closer to 90% meat with the remainder made up of healthy dairy, fats, leafy greens and some fruit. I don't have a total ban on starches though, every so often I'll put a few spoon fulls of mashed sweet potato, or 1/2 a cup of brown rice in his dish. I've even been known to give him some pizza crust... but overall I do prefer a lower carb diet.

THK base products are nice, but for various reasons I personally would not use them as a staple - They are pretty carby, one has a LOT of flax, and they both use peas. For me THK products are more of "make thing easy for the dog sitter" or an "Oh crap I forgot to thaw anything for the dogs, let's just open a can of mackerel and add it to a premix" type of product.

If you are interested in using a premix, but want to feed a lower carb diet, Dr. Harvey has a new low carb premix.

https://www.drharveys.com/products/d...erfood-pre-mix
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by voodoolamb View Post
I guess it depends on what theory of diet you follow.

Carbs can be a bi controversial. Yes dogs can digest them and derive energy from them, they have actually evolved to be able to digest starch in ways that wild canids cannot. Carbs are an affordable source of energy (Kcals) and if you choose your carb source wisely you can get an extra nutritional punch (Like if you pick a sweet potato based food you get a nice dose of caratenoids)

However, there is a school of thought that carbs = sugar. And excess dietary sugar is bad bad bad news.

There is quite a bit of research out there on this topic. You can just go to scholar.google.com and type in carbohydrates + any chronic health condition you can imagine and chances are that there has been research done that finds a link. Especially with the refined carbs. Notably, there is the carb and cancer link. High carb diets can be rather inflammatory and promote microbial flora imbalance.

Of, course, many dogs do well on higher carbs. I personally, prefer a lower carb diet for my dogs. The food I put in their dish is closer to 90% meat with the remainder made up of healthy dairy, fats, leafy greens and some fruit. I don't have a total ban on starches though, every so often I'll put a few spoon fulls of mashed sweet potato, or 1/2 a cup of brown rice in his dish. I've even been known to give him some pizza crust... but overall I do prefer a lower carb diet.

THK base products are nice, but for various reasons I personally would not use them as a staple - They are pretty carby, one has a LOT of flax, and they both use peas. For me THK products are more of "make thing easy for the dog sitter" or an "Oh crap I forgot to thaw anything for the dogs, let's just open a can of mackerel and add it to a premix" type of product.

If you are interested in using a premix, but want to feed a lower carb diet, Dr. Harvey has a new low carb premix.

https://www.drharveys.com/products/d...erfood-pre-mix

thank you

what about

https://www.sojos.com/pre-mix/sojos-...in-free-recipe
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DDRGSD56 View Post
Sojos is about the same as THK. Kinda carby and has flax. I do like that they do not use peas, and that the formula contains carob (Great super food, contains gallic acid which is antiallergic, antibacterial, anti-inflammatory and a bunch of other health benefits too. Good stuff.

Lots of dogs do very well on these formulas though. I would honestly probably grab the cheapest of the two and see how my dog does on it.

You might also want to look at Balance IT or fresh oasis canine - they are both vitamin and mineral powders designed by board certified veterinary nutritionists to completely balance an all meat diet. You can then add whatever fruits and veggies you want and control the carbs.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:23 PM
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Dr. Harvey's Veg-to-Bowl is another option (less expensive than their keto diet). It has peas and (organic) flax. I think the flax is one of the triggers for my allergy dog. THK Preference is the only one I've found without it.

Sojo's has a base mix with grain (oats) that is the cheapest of all the base mixes. For dogs who handle grains well, it can make this sort of transitional feeding very economical because it comes in a huge bag. I haven't fed it because it has too many ingredients -- too much risk for an allergy dog. For dogs with easy digestion though, it's an option.

Volhard Nutrition makes another one, with grain. A friend feeds it with raw and is happy with it.
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Last edited by Magwart; 11-06-2017 at 08:26 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:33 PM
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Grandma Lucy's also makes several pre mixes including a flax free one made with pinto beans and hemp hearts - Macanna I think is the name.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-06-2017, 08:53 PM
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Thanks, VL. I'll look at that. I'd much rather rotate brands and foods to cover more bases, which is why I tried Dr. Harvey's. It produced some pretty slimy, nasty poop in my dog though.

I do think there's a place for the low-end mixes with oats. Fresh meat with that is still a vastly better diet than kibble, and it would be a big improvement for most dogs.

OP, the thing you need to think about with carbs is that there's a difference between a doughnut and quinoa with squash, carrots, greens, and berries when YOU eat, right? All those are "carb" sources, but a diet of doughnuts does not supply the same nutrition as the other one. Dog food is the same: there are carbs from fractionated waste grains from China (corn, rice, etc.) cooked at very high heat (possibly producing acrylamide, a likely carcinogen), and there are carbs from mostly organic, antioxident rich whole food, minimally processed at low heat to preserve the phytonutrients.

Don't get stuck on the percent of protein or carbs. That doesn't tell you much. Think holistically about food ingredients, and whether there are things you want in the dog's diet or not. Or rotate around your options, and cover all your bases.
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