Question about training related to socialization - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 08:15 PM
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I think classes are just a waste of money... My friend has a Pitbull and he said he had no idea what he was doing at first until he stumbled upon this website and read a philosophy on dog training. Now his Pitbull is 16 months old and 110% obedient at dog parks and everywhere else. And I mean really really obedient, he only listens to the owner and ignores all the dogs around him completely. When he does a command, it's not sloppy. It's like one of those police dogs.
Classes are about teaching the people to teach the dog. Sounds like your friend was a great study and can hopefully show you how it's done but classes are definitely not a waste of money.

Dog park socialization is not going to get your dog to ignore other dogs. It will likely make him more interested in other dogs because they are fun. Training your dog and working on his obedience in the presence of distraction is what will give you the focus you are looking for.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 08:45 PM
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I also disagree that dog classes are a waste of money. 2 out of 3 of my dogs have gone to 3-4 classes each and got there CGC. The oldest is a sweetheart but the level of obedience is just not there and she has never had classes. I'm considering taking her at 7 years old What is your definition of obedient and what method do you intend to use to get to where you want to be?

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 08:59 PM
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Training classes are definitely not a waste of money. First, there is the socialization aspect of it. Most of all, the training that is needed for the owner and the dog. It always a big plus to have a second set of eyes observing the interaction between you and your dog. They may catch something you don't see in the dog's expression, posture or temperament.

Training should begin at class or home with no distractions, then gradually the distractions should be added. If you really feel a need for the dog park, that should be the place you proof the training.Otherwise, all to often, the results are what you are seeing. A dog overwhelmed with all the dogs present and unable to keep his focus on you.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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I also disagree that dog classes are a waste of money. 2 out of 3 of my dogs have gone to 3-4 classes each and got there CGC. The oldest is a sweetheart but the level of obedience is just not there and she has never had classes. I'm considering taking her at 7 years old What is your definition of obedient and what method do you intend to use to get to where you want to be?
Definition of obedient? For the dog to understand what I want him to do and he does it. Simple as that... I can't explain my intentions in a couple sentences but if you want to know what I am aiming for you can read what I am reading. It's the philosophy of training dogs from this 1 person's point of view.

Link: Leerburg | Ed Frawley's Philosophy on Dog Training
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Obedience is the most important thing to me because like this 1 person said... His dog was running and the owner told him to stop but didn't. The dog ended up getting hit by a car and died.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:10 PM
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If you are following Leerburg, I suggest concentrating on the Micheal Ellis articles and videos he has available. Specifically the one on engagement to begin with.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by noblemygsd View Post
Definition of obedient? For the dog to understand what I want him to do and he does it. Simple as that... I can't explain my intentions in a couple sentences but if you want to know what I am aiming for you can read what I am reading. It's the philosophy of training dogs from this 1 person's point of view.

Link: Leerburg | Ed Frawley's Philosophy on Dog Training
I think I'll stick with positive training with rewards. It works and I don't think its an ineffective way to train at all. I have a prong for my dog because some clubs require it, but I don't use it otherwise and she does fine on a flat collar. I have never used corrections with her either..never had too. I think I would prefer a trainer that doesn't down play what other trainers do or what methods they use. Of course everyone is different, but one should explore all options before making a decision. Based on what little I read on the site you provided, something is missing in the training your doing if its not 100% with distractions

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:22 PM
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Obedience is the most important thing to me because like this 1 person said... His dog was running and the owner told him to stop but didn't. The dog ended up getting hit by a car and died.
I also know someone that had a dog that was 12 years old with a 100% recall until one day(after 12 years) it didn't listen and chased a squirrel and got hit by a car and died. The ideal situation to avoid this is to keep the dog leashed unless its in a secure area...dogs are very unpredictable no matter how well they are trained

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 10:25 PM
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I think classes are just a waste of money...
I couldn't disagree more.!!!!

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Classes are about teaching the people to teach the dog. Sounds like your friend was a great study and can hopefully show you how it's done but classes are definitely not a waste of money.

Dog park socialization is not going to get your dog to ignore other dogs. It will likely make him more interested in other dogs because they are fun. Training your dog and working on his obedience in the presence of distraction is what will give you the focus you are looking for.
In a nutshell, this is it!

OP, I once thought I was doin a pretty dang good job with my training , and then we started Obedience... and I wasn't doing awful or anything, BUT the trainers pointed out how I could do BETTER and how some things I was doing, unknown to me, were actually working against the ultimate goal. The smallest things -- how you're holding yourself, your posture, things you absolutely don't feel or notice -- the trainers observing you do notice. And *that* is the big value, IMHO, to the classes. An outside, trained observer who can bring your attention to ways you can improve what you're trying to accomplish. Seriously, things that you wouldn't think are such a big deal; the way you turn your feet, the way you lean, etc and so on convey a message to the dog that you don't have a clue you're delivering until someone points it out, tells you a better way, you try it and it works much better. It has sure made a big believer out of me!

The other huge benefit to me is that if you want a distractive environment, dog class is it.

My dog loves other dogs and wants to play. Very much. Our club allows zero dog play. A two second sniff is all that is allowed. All handlers must keep their dogs apart, period. This is pretty strictly enforced. We're not there for puppy play time, we're there for Obedience , so that's fine. We work on many meet-n-greets and walk the ring together, etc, but the dogs aren't there for each other -- they're there to learn to focus on us, the owners. You may say you think classes are a waste of money, but you're just wrong. If you want to teach your dog to focus on you, these classes are "where it's at."

Good luck.!

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Originally Posted by noblemygsd View Post
Obedience is the most important thing to me because like this 1 person said... His dog was running and the owner told him to stop but didn't. The dog ended up getting hit by a car and died.
Then go sign up for Obedience class.!
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 10:27 PM
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To much socialization especially when it is always play with other dogs can make your dog have a better relationship with other dogs than with you.

So yes I think you can over socialize to dogs with certain types of dogs. Some dogs are naturally more people type dogs and the amount of socialization to other dogs may not have a big effect of them. Some dogs think that playing with other dogs is the best thing ever and given a choice would rather play with another dog than with their person. These types of dogs I think it is important that you always put your relationship with your dogs first over their relationship to other dogs.

For me I like to spend the majority of time exercising my dogs where it is about them and me. Occasionally I will get together with my friends and my dogs will hang out with their doggie friends but I do not like that to be my dogs main source of stimulation and exercise.
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