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7K views 81 replies 20 participants last post by  Redbeard 
#1 ·
Just moved to central TX and it hasnt been the best life decision thats for sure. Ive never experienced the amount of negative events in such a short time frame as I have since moving here. Thats my sob story.
Background: I worked in Security. I ran security for schools and houses of worship. I am an instructor for various threat assessment programs, active attacker response, and firearms. This field had me very close to getting a working GSD (bomb/ordinance detection). That didnt happen and a move to TX did.
Due to some unfortunate personal events that have had an obvious affect on my families safety and well being I am back in the process of getting a GSD. The emphasis wont have to be on ordinance detection but more personal, family, home protection.
I joined because I just dont know enough. There are fair number of breeders around here but some insight into them would be awesome. In the past I used my LEO connections to get the insight needed. I dont have that here.
I am in Austin.
Looking for protection and family companion.
Teach me.
 
#3 ·
good morning,

I don't have personal advice. However after reading other's advice over the years look for IPO clubs, rally groups, even agility forums in your area. Meet with people there, watch their dogs and find out more information about the ones that seem to fit the needs of your family. Welcome to the forum, depending on work schedules sometimes thread get missed so don't take it personally. Good luck in your search. Hope things start looking up for you.
 
#4 ·
Yes, nothing personal, I just don't know a thing about protection dogs.

I'm sorry about your negative events recently.

You are looking to get a pup and train it in protection yourself? (not easy, do you have training experience ...if not, you'll have to join a Club?)

Have you thought about an already-trained adult Protection Dog ($$$)?

Or did you just mean, you want to get a GSD that will have a naturally protective temperament (bark when people go by, sound & look scary, defend when needed)?
 
#5 ·
Thanks for getting the convo going. I knee you guys were out there somewhere.
I am leaning towards a young adult, partially trained. However the financial investment, from what I've seen so far, is 35,000+. Seems a bit steep but maybe I'm wrong? Sticker shock can always fade with some knowledge.
 
#8 ·
There is a great thread on here recently started that has info about IPO/IGP/PP dogs. I’d link it, but I’m on my phone and haven’t figured out how to do that yet.

I will say, TX seems to be a state that A LOT of GSD’s come from, with a ton being shelter dumped, which is generally a case of BYB being prevalent. Not always, but most reputable breeders will take the dog back, rather than them ending up in a shelter. In my town, it’s BB and chihuahua’s.

You might be better off actually looking into a breed rescue (again, do research, not all are in it for the right reasons) or your local shelter and getting an older GSD that already has a set temperament and is easier to work with than a pup. If it’s just for home protection, I wouldn’t shell out that kind of money. I’d invest that into a great security system, hand gun training for the family, and a one on one training to get you where you want to be with a GSD as a deterrent, but not the last line of security. If that makes any sense.
 
#9 ·
You'd be surprised at the large number of nice GSD being dumped at shelters. And because the breed is such a loyal
dog, it usually doesn't take long for their natural protectiveness to kick in.

You don't really need a professionally trained dog for normal family/home protection. Just the sight of a GSD is a deterrent
to many people. Then the bark scares off the rest of them. You can easily teach a GSD to bark at noises, trespassers,
and strangers on or near your property.

My rescue GSD/mix learned within a few weeks of getting her from the shelter that strangers- 2 legged or 4 legged- were
not supposed to be near my farm. I taught her to bark at them. And she learned to chase them off. Don't think she'd
ever bite a stranger but she has scared a few who trespassed over our fence or gate.

My dog- 2 yr. old cost me $10. and was spade w/ all shots and health checked. Yes, she needed training but learns
very quickly because she's smart. Best money I ever spent.

Check your shelters and rescue organization and see what's available. Good Luck in your search.
 
#10 ·
This is just my personal opinion, but I agree with others that for home security a GSD without specific intensive protection training should be more than sufficient. This breed is extremely loyal to their person (or family), naturally aloof towards strangers, extremely intelligent and biddable, and there isn’t a person alive that isn’t familiar with the sight of a GSD and their reputation as K9s or aka “bad ass dogs”. To this day I have people, even children who will ask me about my “K9” when I’m out and about with him. Nothing escapes his attention at home, he notices everything and will alert right away. But he doesn’t bark incessantly, only if a vehicle or someone is by our property. If someone physically steps foot on our property, he will bark and engage in a chase if I allow it. I don’t think he would bite someone unless they were physically harming or threatening me. I never taught him any of this, it’s just how he is.

You could of course participate in IGP clubs which would undoubtedly not be a hindrance, but as far as paying tens of thousands of dollars I think you could do without for your purposes. Honestly for a serious dog like that, I can only see being useful in a LE operation or such as your line of work. But for the home, if someone specifically targets you and knows you have a dog... they can be dispatched accordingly despite training. Of course this is only my opinion. I do recommend whichever avenue you decide to take, to engage in a sort of sport as it creates such a closer bond and understanding. I don’t participate in the protection sports but am in the middle of beginner agility with my boy and after only three classes the difference is amazing. He is so much more in tune with me and our bond has grown even stronger, we have such a better understanding of one another and I thought we were already doing well before. I wish you the best of luck on your search!
 
#12 ·
If you really need a protection dog, and you truly will be depending on this dog for your family's health and welfare, I would steer clear of any rescue or shelter dog as most are, and if not should be, spayed and neutered. IMO, a real protection dog relies on their hormones among other traits.

If I were you, and your needs are real protection, I would start looking for a kennel that is producing what you want and need. There are HUGE benefits to a dog having the right stuff vs one that has been trained to appear that it does.
 
#13 ·
Good info. I hadn't considered the spayed/neutered thing being a possible issue. I was actually under the impression (info from a trainer in MI) that k9's get "fixed." Maybe I misheard.
Do you know any highly recommended breeders in Austin area? Yes, I've contacted a few, and done a lot of browsing websites but a professional and outsider opinion is what I'm after.
 
#15 ·
If I were in your shoes, I would contact Khoi Pham (khoipham@verizon.net) in Grand Prairie Texas. It's a 3 hour drive for you, so I wouldn't expect to train there often, but he would know the breeders in the area that are producing the type of dog you are after. They also have an excellent club to visit for occasional training sessions after you get started.

I would never look to shelters or rescues for a personal protection dog. This is a very specific type of dog and training and you should get a young adult that is proven. You may hear 1000 anecdotal stories of how a shelter dog protected it's family. Everyone believes that their dog will lay down it's life for them. That simply isn't the case and most dogs will go into avoidance when real pressure is applied.

Also, if you feel your life is in danger, I would advise other means of protection that is suitable for your given family members. Train hard and often.

Self defense of any kind is a lifestyle. Dogs require a large commitment in money and time for the life of the dog. They are worth it IMO, but it's a decision you should make with as much information as possible.

Go see Khoi and talk to the members of the club. That would be a great place to start.
 
#18 · (Edited)
If I were in your shoes, I would contact Khoi Pham (khoipham@verizon.net) in Grand Prairie Texas. It's a 3 hour drive for you, so I wouldn't expect to train there often, but he would know the breeders in the area that are producing the type of dog you are after. They also have an excellent club to visit for occasional training sessions after you get started...
Im having a hard time finding info on Khoi Pham. Do you know of a website by chance? Thanks for the input too. I see the validity in your points regarding continual training and redundancy in protection.

I feel I am getting more knowledge and confidence with where I am heading with this (thanks for the help everyone) but not any closer to finding a dog. Hoping to change that by the end of the week by at least having a breeder in mind. I was originally thinking of finding a local breeder but now Ive opened it up nationally.
Before I dismiss the local breeders, is there anyone out there with intimate knowledge of Austin area working dog breeders???
My mind says:
*35k is out of the question even though I see the value
*no to a puppy

*an adolescent started on protection work, with a plan to continue factored into price, seems ideal.
 
#17 ·
This is the thread mentioned above. It might help. https://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/schutzhund-ipo-training/758223-getting-started-igp.html

A $35,000 protection trained dog is for someone whose life is threatened and doesn’t sound like the right dog for your budget. If you have children, you must get a dog that is solid with a stable temperament.

I agree with all the comments about shelter dogs. Yes, occasionally someone lucks out with a well bred shelter dog that works for their needs. No, I don’t think K9s are neutered. Neutering removes necessary hormones and can make a dog flabby and less fit. I know Texas shelters are supposedly full of excellent dogs, but in my experience in my state, it’s rare for a very well bred, stable GSD to be dumped in a shelter. Usually a friend or family member will take a good dog before that happens.
 
#26 ·
I just typed out a long message with an update but now Im just gonna do the cliff notes version:
*Im getting close...I think
*Some breeders have been completely nonresponsive, some just gave a little info, and others went above and beyond to help. There are good ones out there.
*Its looking like an older puppy is most likely to happen. I will be responsible for a lot of the training and I am hoping to use https://precisionk9work.com/ They are local and listed on PSA website.
*Going younger will help create that permanent family bond I am hoping for

*Everyone that chimed in, Thank You. It was helpful and appreciated.
more to come.
 
#27 ·
Well, I feel a bit like a traitor but a Malinois pup came into the picture and its bloodline is amazing. Father is PSA III with numerous police dogs in the line. He isnt showing high drive but its got to be in there somewhere. He is 8 weeks right now and this is day 1 for us. The adventure begins.
Again, thanks all for the input.
Lackland AFB got back to me. Im going to work with my pup for a while before taking them up on the fostering. It is something I look forward to doing though.
 
#28 ·
I personally don’t feel like you should feel like a traitor. You get what works for you and your family. However, I hope you did your research on mals before you jumped. I’ve noticed there’s tons of Breed guarders on mals and Dutch shepherds. While I’m sure they have good intent, it can be a tad overwhelming. Good luck! I’ve had shepherds and pits. Never a mal. Let me know how it goes


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