Stipulations from breeders - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Stipulations from breeders

Hi, I was curious about something that has turned me off of some kennels, which is the large amount of stipulations in their contracts and wanted to ask why it seems so common. My boyfriend loves German shepherds and used to breed another breed of dog before, so I suggested if he wanted to consider looking into being a hobby breeder along with the dog training he is planning to do. The more research I do into kennels the more I find with great dogs but they only do limited registration or have breeding clauses that require not only more money and a number of requirements like working titles, etc. but also with basically a veto held over you from the kennel of whether they will allow it or not. We might never consider it based on if any dogs we get pass health certifications and do really well with their training/right temperament, but I’d like to have the option. I understand wanting some control but it seems like they’re intentionally trying to dissuade or make impossible the future breeding of any of their dogs. I know a lot of people on this site may just call me a dreaded backyard breeder regardless of my attempts to be responsible before we even get a dog or worse, but hopefully there is someone that can relate.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 01:53 PM
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I suggest if you and your boyfriend are seriously considering breeding that you build a relationship with a local breeder if you can. Having a mentor can help you avoid many pitfalls. Also explore the county / state rules for breeding where you are. Laws are becoming more and more restrictive or expensive, which is good and bad...hard for the small time hobby breeder who may only have one or two litters on a year or more.
Once you have established yourselves as someone who is serious about doing the right thing, you may find doors opening that were first closed. I can see breeders trying to keep people from frivolously having litters for the experience.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 02:11 PM
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If you put in the work, partipate in show or sport and earn the titles, and if your dog's health and temperment check out, then I bet others in the dog-world will help you with your breeding endevors--especially if you start out with a pup with a sound pedigree. I think it's great that you and your boyfriend are considering training your dogs and becoming breeders. But there are a lot of unwanted dogs, including GSDs in shelters. Just from being on this forum, it seems like there are also a lot of GSDs out there with serious behavior problems. Please get a mentor, learn about pedigrees, work and title your dogs in something so you know their strengths and limitations (be it sport or show or something else), and do things right. I'm not a breeder, but if I was, I would do everything possible to prevent my dogs from ending up in the hands of unethical breeders who would use them to pump out litter after litter of puppies that end up who knows where. That may absolutely NOT be you, but how does a breeder know that unless you prove it and earn their trust? There are certain qualifications or degrees that one must earn to call themselves a professional in almost any field, why not a dog breeder?
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:52 PM
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Both of my contracts have breeding clauses in them. One, I would need breeder approval of the bitch to stud him. The other states I can't breed him unless he achieves a recognized working title.

I am not a pedigree knowledgeable person. Proper breeding is an art done by someone who knows all these pedigrees, knows what dogs bring what to the table, how they express or don't express themselves.

A contract is meant to keep someone like me from studding my dog to just any bitch with AKC papers. It's a reputable business (kennel) protecting their hard worked for reputation.

IMO a pairing should comes from health tested and either titled or actual working dogs. But that isn't the extent of it. Understanding a dog or bitches qualities, strength and weaknesses, what may pair well together, is an art. I don't know that stuff yet and maybe I never will have the time and experience to learn it. Should I ever decide to stud my dogs it would be under guidance of someone who does. Having that contract gives the breeders more peace of mind people will in fact approach things that way.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:08 PM
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I’d be more concerned without a stipulation in the contract. Yes, it is in place to prevent people who wouldn’t put in all the necessary health testing and temperament testing to come along and start indiscriminately breeding one of their pups.

If I want to breed Seiran, I have to pay an additional price to the breeder, and will also need stud approval. This is done for the good of the breed. To ensure you aren’t polluting the line with a random breeding of a stud that isn’t compatible or wouldn’t improve the lines.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:58 PM
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They are not trying to dissuade future breedings of their dogs. They are trying to dissuade irresponsible breeding. I' have never heard of a breeder not releasing to full registration after titling per their contract. In fact, it's in the contract that both of you sign so they really have no choice.

My breeder has breeding rights on my female...and she's on limited registration until she's titled. This breeder is my friend. It's not about me, or her. It's about protecting the dogs.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Today, 05:51 AM
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@OP.....the concerns you have is one of the reasons many people prefer to import dogs from Europe. The irony of the situation is that the other primary reason for importing is that it is felt the quality is better. In America, where breeding requirements are nonexistent, contracts are fashionable among many.....in Europe where breeding requirements are stronger, contracts are nonexistent.
If you are serious enough about the breed to import, learn, and train, then you can reasonably seek what you and your friend want to do without the added contractual stuff. Unfortunately, without the breeding requirements here in the States, the contract breeders are providing a means of keeping the quality of the breed strong.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Today, 08:08 AM
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I don't have an issue with requirements before being given full registration - especially as a newcomer in the breed. I know some people do care.
Regardless of what you choose (import or USA bred), I'd recommend being upfront with your breeder. Let them know you have interest in breeding and are willing to fulfill the requirements if there are any. Mine has to clear health tests, obtain a working title and agreement not to breed before the age of 2.
My breeder knows I'm interested. I pick her brain all the time and ask questions about dogs and kennels. My boy and I are working towards our BH and IGP1 before going to APA and collecting fun titles along the way. She is basically my mentor and friend, and I am grateful for her patience with me. Next week I'll be going down to her place to help and experience whelping a litter - super excited!
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Today, 08:27 AM
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We had our first litter of Shepherds about 18 months ago. Dam a Sch2 and sire a Sch3. I aggressively avoided anyone looking for a dog for breeding. My female is very high drive working lines and not a good fit for someone looking for a casual pet. I would hate to see someone buy a puppy from her, breed it and then sell to whomever had the money as I could see a high return rate on the puppies. As a veterinarian I see many clients who can not train a bassett hound much less deal with something very intense. The females from my litter went to people with breed experience and three of the four males are dual purpose police canines. I can't begin to tell you how many nuts texted me looking for a puppy with a particular color, price etc. Find a mentor to train or show with to prove you are serious.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Today, 09:42 AM
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Contracts really are an American thing. Maybe because in our culture animals are a throw away commodity and the breeders want to protect them. You can buy an import but I would make sure you had someone to guide you to a good dog and not just get a reject.

My male came from a breeder that sells on full registration with no contract. Contracts, as far as protecting my rights, really mean zip to me. If the dog has a genetic disease, I don't want another from that breeder so a replacement isn't an option. Nor will I return the dog. It's MY dog. But I have no issue with limited registration until the dog is titled. Again, it's spelled out in the contract. You meet the requirements and they have to give full registration.

The ONLY thing I care about in a contract is that the breeder will take the dog back in the event something happens to me. I want my dogs to go back to the breeder and be place appropriately. And THAT requires trust in the breeder. So bottom line....if you don't like the paperwork and you don't trust the breeder...keep looking.
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