Know of any breeders? - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvShepherds View Post
That brings back memories. My first GSD was from vom Kirschental lines. The kennel is gone but someone here has two of their dogs. Maybe someone out there is breeding out of their lines.
Alta-Tollhaus in Michigan had some Kirschental lines, but they have evolved to more SL than herding over the years.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 08:09 PM
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There used to be a line of GSDs active in herding, Kirschental. I think they were WGSL though. Unfortunately, I believe the breeder died and no one kept the line going. I remember reading some threads about them a while back, very interesting.
Marion (Karls wife) kept the kennel going for awhile. My TJ is from their very last litter (Paisley is from a few litters before him). Paisley is my herding dog and helps with my goats. There are a few newer herding kennels in Germany that have used Kirschental dogs in their program fairly recently - I know the names if I look on facebook). My two kirschental show lines are more moderate than other dogs I have seen.

Lesser known for breeding - Barb Easton in San Diego. She had a dog from Tehillah in Canada who got multiple herding championships - AKC, AHBA, I think one from Canada. She bred Gina a year or two ago. She may breed one of the puppies at some point, but that would be something if you were willing to wait a bit. She is actively working those dogs. Gina was bred to UConn vom Patalia (spelling?).
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
Shepherdgate is American Showline type... I would follow Ulf on FB...!
Shepherdgate is actually Daphne’s line, they’re working lines derived from/closely related to Ulf’s foundation lines.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:24 PM
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Jackie (Xeph here on the forum) does herding with her dogs. Marcato is her kennel, in Pennsylvania.

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mspiker03 View Post
Marion (Karls wife) kept the kennel going for awhile. My TJ is from their very last litter (Paisley is from a few litters before him). Paisley is my herding dog and helps with my goats. There are a few newer herding kennels in Germany that have used Kirschental dogs in their program fairly recently - I know the names if I look on facebook). My two kirschental show lines are more moderate than other dogs I have seen.

Lesser known for breeding - Barb Easton in San Diego. She had a dog from Tehillah in Canada who got multiple herding championships - AKC, AHBA, I think one from Canada. She bred Gina a year or two ago. She may breed one of the puppies at some point, but that would be something if you were willing to wait a bit. She is actively working those dogs. Gina was bred to UConn vom Patalia (spelling?).
I'm not planning on getting a pup right away but I definitely am starting to look to find a good breeder whose dogs/program I like and follow them a bit to see maybe which individual dogs or lines I like the most. Definitely not jumping in right away and wanting a puppy right this minute. But my dog is going to be 4 this year I believe so wanting to start to find something in the next year or two maybe. Might end up being longer and might not end up going with GSD just because of potential housing concerns in the future, just with maybe them being banned if I end up having to move or something. But I also have a cousin who wants very closely the same type of dog I want and she's an amazing dog owner so keeping an eye out for her too.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 09:31 PM
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Gina, one of the dogs mspiker mentioned, was phenomenal. She competed on courses no one ever thought were possible for a GSD to finish (let alone win).

When it comes time to decide what you want, there are as many flavors and nuances in herding dogs as anything else. Do you want a dog that is gentle and easy on her stock, a hard dog that won’t back down from a hormone surcharged ram, a dog that works waaaaaay far off the stock so you can gently push flighty nervous animals around, or a gritty bitch that can get kicked in the head and bounce back up for more - there’s no one perfect stockdog. But you can find something that will probably suit you.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 10:21 PM
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I'm not planning on getting a pup right away but I definitely am starting to look to find a good breeder whose dogs/program I like and follow them a bit to see maybe which individual dogs or lines I like the most. Definitely not jumping in right away and wanting a puppy right this minute. But my dog is going to be 4 this year I believe so wanting to start to find something in the next year or two maybe. Might end up being longer and might not end up going with GSD just because of potential housing concerns in the future, just with maybe them being banned if I end up having to move or something. But I also have a cousin who wants very closely the same type of dog I want and she's an amazing dog owner so keeping an eye out for her too.
Barb doesn't have a breeding program, per se. She bred Gina (and rightfully so!) and I assume she may breed one of her puppies. But I used to train with her and she was very accomplished with her dog before Gina (that is the dog who I saw her with) and she handles other peoples dogs. I just don't think you will find a formal program with her. She doesn't have a kennel page and I am not sure she advertised the last litter. Wouldn't be surprised if you find her at national events at some point...

I also think - re working my own stock, vs stock at a herding place... My stock is not dog broke and they don't easily play the "lets all go together in one cohesive group" game like the herding facilities I have been to. Stock that are "jerks" and don't conform to the rules as much get dropped. So, it really is a different ball game when you talk wanting to compete at trials or have your own stock. My dog has to be way pushier with my own goats than she ever was at a herding place.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
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Barb doesn't have a breeding program, per se. She bred Gina (and rightfully so!) and I assume she may breed one of her puppies. But I used to train with her and she was very accomplished with her dog before Gina (that is the dog who I saw her with) and she handles other peoples dogs. I just don't think you will find a formal program with her. She doesn't have a kennel page and I am not sure she advertised the last litter. Wouldn't be surprised if you find her at national events at some point...

I also think - re working my own stock, vs stock at a herding place... My stock is not dog broke and they don't easily play the "lets all go together in one cohesive group" game like the herding facilities I have been to. Stock that are "jerks" and don't conform to the rules as much get dropped. So, it really is a different ball game when you talk wanting to compete at trials or have your own stock. My dog has to be way pushier with my own goats than she ever was at a herding place.
Oh yeah definitely something I have in mind. I'll start off working with stock that's dog broke. There's some good trainers in my area who do herding instinct tests with dogs and teach you/train if they show interest. Once I've gotten a handle on things and the dog knows how to work and I know how to work it I'll move towards working more range stock preferably at least familiar with dogs. I have an aunt with a decent sized sheep herd but they've not been around dogs. So I'd want to talk to her in the future because I like to go out and help her as is.

There's also some goat herding positions I could potentially get during the summer that include using dogs so if I had a dog I could potentially use that or if I don't get a dog by then I'll get hands on experience working with an already trained dog and herding daily.

I also imagine that a lot of people I know would let me help them work their animals giving me a chance to train the pup more. I'm more leaning toward actual working not trials although there are some around me that I'd certainly sign up for.

Have you guys seen much for herding cattle? I have a lot more options cattle wise but am leaning towards sheep and goats. I know I'd definitely need a hard won't back down herder to work range cattle. But I'm hesitant to do that because the risk of injury/death to the dog is a lot higher. I wouldn't need to do it but I'd certainly enjoy getting out and helping my friends and family. But well unless I end up out living on a ranch I don't need to work cattle with a dog.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 01:10 AM
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Far from a herding expert, but I know enough to know that there are different styles of herding, a lot of it based on breed and the type of stock that breed was developed for. For example, i’d probably be more inclined to get a cattle dog vs a gsd with a hard enough temperament to drive cattle. I’m sure there are GSD suitable, but other traits may come along with that package that you don’t particularly desire.

Just my late Friday night 2 cents. Tilden was put in a pen with 3 sheep but instead looked at the butterflies.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 08:02 AM
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Cattle are kind of a different cup of tea. Everything we do with dogs has some risk, but cattle are pretty darn dangerous. When our club brought in cattle for a trial two years ago, one of the dogs competing broke her leg, and that’s not terribly uncommon.

You can look at the list of GSDs who’ve finished ASCA’s WTCH (Working Trial Champion) if you’re interested. To finish, dogs have to title Started, then Open, then Advanced on all 3 types of stock, including cattle. So any WTCH GSD will have had at least 6 successful cattle runs in trial, with at least two of those completed at the Advanced level. I absolutely agree that trials aren’t the be-all end-all, but working unknown (to the dog) stock at different locations does demonstrate ability and work ethic. The stock absolutely get jazzed up on trial day, as well, so that adds another layer of complexity.

Cattle lines of BCs (and of course ACDs) come out of the womb with certain traits that aren’t common in GSDs, but there are definitely dogs who have done it.
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