How likely/unlikely is a Long Coat Blk WGSL? - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
r3tro23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
You want a working dog? I thought I saw this in a previous post. If so, and you want a LC black, why not just get a working line?

If you do want a working dog, then make sure you make them prove that these dogs can indeed work. I'm not impressed with this Margman line so far.

If all you want is a pet, this will be fine. The temperament seems good but they don't have super strong nerves and seem to stress easily.
No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
r3tro23 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 11:56 AM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3tro23 View Post
No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
No. I didn't look at the pedigree. I'm going off of personal experience with the line and what I've seen in person from different females, same Margman sire.

These are not high drive dogs for work. Again, I see very low thresholds for stress in just learning simple foundation obedience tasks. I see dogs that you have to work your butt off to get to work in obedience with low food drive. Dogs that won't engage or grip. That stuff is all genetic.

Good pets. Not working dogs.

So you say you want a dog for work but the first word of your response is "No" when I asked if you wanted a working dog. Not a working line...but a working dog. So again, if the above in your response is what you want, and you like the LC blacks, why not look at a working lines that will give you the appropriate drives that you want.

If you want to continue with this breeding then you need to make the breeder prove to you that these dogs have food drive, biddability and drive to work. That they can handle simple stress like teaching new obedience exercises.
onyx'girl likes this.




Jax08 is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 11:09 PM
Crowned Member
 
wolfstraum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 11,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3tro23 View Post
No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
You are totally contradicting yourself.

The pedigree is showline - so you get an oddity - a black showline.....somehow the black recessive seems to have been captured from 10-12 generations back - if the pedigrees are to be believed....


So - you are getting what you say you want.


But what you say you want to do??? While it is a lottery ticket - I would say - No - you are NOT getting trainability, high drive........or ability to accept any stress in training - not in obedience, not in protection....typical showlines will show some drive, but it cannot be molded, structured, shaped or corrected without the dog just giving up....I have not personally seen any individuals from this Russian kennel....but have seen many showline dogs....a few with alot of aggression who can do bitework, but out of anger and not particularly correct or controllable.

You will be getting a pretty coated pet IMO...not a dog to do any sport or activity with.

sorry - just my experience watching many many many showlines in both schutzhund and in AKC obedience/rally


Lee
onyx'girl likes this.

Hexe Sch2, Komet & Kougar IPO1, Kira HGH, SG Bengal, Lynx v Wolfstraum ~ Ziberia IPO1 ~ ATB Basha, Kougar & Kyra, Fenja, Sch3s, Cito, Sch2, DangerRH, Csabre & Alice Sch1s ~Kelsey
wolfstraum.net
wolfstraum is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 12:03 AM
Crowned Member
 
MineAreWorkingline's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 4,989
It is rumored that the Russian showline blacks are a dominant black gene which in turn leads to more rumors.

If you need equipment to maintain control of your dog, understand you’re hanging on to your dog’s body because you’ve lost his mind!

Suzanne Clothier
MineAreWorkingline is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 06:32 AM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,756
Margman lines are dominant black. That is not a rumor. I've seen the progeny.




Jax08 is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 08:09 AM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
No. I didn't look at the pedigree. I'm going off of personal experience with the line and what I've seen in person from different females, same Margman sire.

These are not high drive dogs for work. Again, I see very low thresholds for stress in just learning simple foundation obedience tasks. I see dogs that you have to work your butt off to get to work in obedience with low food drive. Dogs that won't engage or grip. That stuff is all genetic.

Good pets. Not working dogs.

So you say you want a dog for work but the first word of your response is "No" when I asked if you wanted a working dog. Not a working line...but a working dog. So again, if the above in your response is what you want, and you like the LC blacks, why not look at a working lines that will give you the appropriate drives that you want.

If you want to continue with this breeding then you need to make the breeder prove to you that these dogs have food drive, biddability and drive to work. That they can handle simple stress like teaching new obedience exercises.
Interesting, my dog I would not say has a ton of food drive. But he is so easy to teach, practice, compete in obedience. It seems to come really naturally and easily to him. I am sure he is not a high drive dog. I wonder what the difference is. When I go to train sometimes he will pick up an exercise and start better than what we finished last time, like he has been thinking about it on his own time which I am sure isn't possible.

He is super super biddable and has a lot of desire to do what I want and he is incredibly honest--if he knows how to do it right he will.

I think the act of figuring out what I want and doing it is its own reward to him ?
Thecowboysgirl is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 08:14 AM
Crowned Member
 
wolfstraum's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 11,098
Looking at the progeny photos of sire - some black, some black and red....go to his second dam....

Pictures of progenies for V Vita v. Nord Traum IPO-1

Mostly black - but some black and red too.....


Lee

Hexe Sch2, Komet & Kougar IPO1, Kira HGH, SG Bengal, Lynx v Wolfstraum ~ Ziberia IPO1 ~ ATB Basha, Kougar & Kyra, Fenja, Sch3s, Cito, Sch2, DangerRH, Csabre & Alice Sch1s ~Kelsey
wolfstraum.net
wolfstraum is online now  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 09:50 AM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
Interesting, my dog I would not say has a ton of food drive. But he is so easy to teach, practice, compete in obedience. It seems to come really naturally and easily to him. I am sure he is not a high drive dog. I wonder what the difference is. When I go to train sometimes he will pick up an exercise and start better than what we finished last time, like he has been thinking about it on his own time which I am sure isn't possible.

He is super super biddable and has a lot of desire to do what I want and he is incredibly honest--if he knows how to do it right he will.

I think the act of figuring out what I want and doing it is its own reward to him ?
I'm not sure the correlation between the dogs of the Margman line that I've seen and yours? All dogs are different. My post was directly related to this specific line.




Jax08 is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 12:20 PM
Crowned Member
 
Thecowboysgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax08 View Post
I'm not sure the correlation between the dogs of the Margman line that I've seen and yours? All dogs are different. My post was directly related to this specific line.
Correlation just that he isn't a working line dog and doesn't have much food drive. He is not even remotely related to the Margman line I would assume.

maybe I interpreted what you said wrong-- that not much food drive was contributing to the handlers having to work super hard to teach these dogs obedience?
Thecowboysgirl is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 01:57 PM
Crowned Member
 
Jax08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NNE PA
Posts: 29,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecowboysgirl View Post
Correlation just that he isn't a working line dog and doesn't have much food drive. He is not even remotely related to the Margman line I would assume.

maybe I interpreted what you said wrong-- that not much food drive was contributing to the handlers having to work super hard to teach these dogs obedience?
Again, I was talking specifically about the Margman line puppies I saw. I'm not going down the rabbit hole of generalizing to all show lines. If your dog works with no food drive, that's great.




Jax08 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long Coat German Shepherd nyvolvolvr Finding the Right Puppy 27 03-03-2013 03:02 PM
Another long coat plus color question! Carriesue General Puppy Stuff 16 02-14-2013 01:22 AM
How long will his coat be? Vagus General Puppy Stuff 18 11-16-2012 09:52 AM
Long hair - Long coat - Stock hair ..etc Aralango The Breed Standard 26 10-17-2012 02:59 PM
Looking for a long coat Chicagocanine Choosing A Breeder 38 01-06-2009 10:11 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome