To breed or not to breed that is the question - Page 2 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #11 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 11:39 AM
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Its frustrating to see misinformation in threads.
I would never go to a breeder who isnt breeding top bitches within the breed standard. The bitches dont need to be world champions, but they better be capable in temperament and conformation of the breed standard. The more often a breeder gets away from that, the closer we get to losing the breed. Only bybs and money grubbers breed any bitch.
No good breeder will allow you to bring a dog to see new puppies. For safety reasons. If they do, I'd walk the other way.
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post #12 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 12:16 PM
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@selzer, there is too much room for disagreement or confusion in your post. What is “best?” I’m sure you are not telling someone to breed a flawed dog or one that is not from decent lines. I am against breeding random pets, but if a dog excels or is special in terms of lineage or ability, then maybe. I know your dogs have very stable temperaments so you are making qualified judgments when you decide to breed. If you had a dog that had health problems or a bad temperament, nervy, or something else, you would not breed her. There is no danger of the breed dying out. There is a danger of poorly bred dogs ruining lines.
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post #13 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 11:55 AM
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@selzer, you wrote:

Also, if only the best GSDs are bred for future generations, then the gene pool will shrink to such a level that all the recessives that are out there will come out in the puppies, and soon the breed will be no more. Canines should meet minimum requirements for breeding, which happens to be different depending on what the dogs are bred to do. But seriously limiting the number of animals bred will not make for a healthy breed.

The gene pool of GSD's is not in any danger of shrinking. There are plenty of good, breed worthy GSD's out there that bring positive traits to the breed.

I do agree that Canines should meet the minimum requirements for breeding, which unfortunately is different for many breeders. According to the AKC the dog only has to be over 8 months for a female and have an AKC pedigree. I suppose a cute female with a pulse and a heat cycle could be interpreted to be the minimum breeding requirement? Certainly, that is what many GSD breeders believe, based on the dogs that I see.

How about both dogs having hip and elbow x rays certified by OFA, SV or Penn Hip before breeding as a start for a minimum. How about a conformation rating by an independent third party judge. For a minimum, how about an obedience, tracking, agility, or a nose work title? Something to show the breeder actually holds back and works with dogs from their breeding. An IPO title would be even better, but we all know that most GSD's are not capable of IPO. Also most breeders are not capable of putting the time and effort in the commitment of something like IPO. I understand what is involved in IPO and that is why I say for a minimum, an agility or OB title. Surely, that is not difficult to show a dog has some breed worthiness.

Fact of the matter, in my opinion the vast majority of dogs being bred are really not that breed worthy. Few offer any special qualities besides a nice color or structure. That is not enough. Some have a stable temperament and decent structure, that is nothing special and not really breed worthy. Then there are the exceptional dogs that have an outstanding temperament, drive, work ethic and excellent structure and conformation. Those are the dogs that should be bred.

If we start being more selective in the breeders we go to and the dogs we breed; the breed will benefit. Limiting the number of animals bred will absolutely make for a stronger and better breed.

JMO, FWIW
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post #14 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selzer View Post
Canines should meet minimum requirements for breeding, which happens to be different depending on what the dogs are bred to do.
??? Breeding for a singular purpose would seem counterproductive to maintaining versatility in the breed. (isn't that how the breed ended up with extremes in drive, conformation, pet only bloodlines etc.?)

IMHO minimum requirements for temperament, drive, work ethic etc. should be standards breeders strive for with or without the AKC mandating those requirements, and good breeders do just that. (AKC will never require breed surveys, working trials etc)

Quote:
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Also, if only the best GSDs are bred for future generations, then the gene pool will shrink to such a level that all the recessives that are out there will come out in the puppies, and soon the breed will be no more.
I don't believe there's a shortage of genetic diversity and good dogs in the breed but there is a shortage of breeders who are willing to invest the time and money it takes to prove a dogs genetic worth. What we have now is too many breeders who talk the talk but won't test to see if their dogs can walk the walk.
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post #15 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 04:12 PM
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Ditto what everyone else said...don't breed. 1)You missed your window. She's too old now. 2)Unless she comes from an impeccable lineage....actually it doesn't matter, she's too old.
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post #16 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 05:36 PM
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It does hurt bitches to have puppies. Then the needle puppy teeth biting their teats. I would not want Inga to suffer and feel pain like that, not for some selfish wish of mine for her to have puppies. As good and beautiful as she is. No, not worth it. She will always be a Fraulein.

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post #17 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 08:06 PM
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My girls are 8 and for whatever reason neither cares much for puppies anymore. Maybe our new puppy is the stinky kid or something, idk.

I saw an article on cloning dogs the other day, not sure if I can find it the though. It wasn’t anything special, just a fuzz piece. I believe there is a doc in South Korea who is doing this for the Hollywood types of something.
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post #18 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:06 PM
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Texas A&M University clones animals. Some people had a pet Brahma bull they really loved. When he was old and dying, they took cells and had him cloned at A&M and the cell was implanted in a cow. A Brahma calf resulted. When the people took the calf home and turned him out, he went right to the exact bull wallow where their first bull used to sleep, and the calf slept there too. True story.

Myself, I know that a special one can never be replaced by cloning. The genes may be the same, but thats not all there is to it. Although it would be interesting to raise a clone of myself, because I never had any children. I would sure would have that kids number.

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post #19 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurse Bishop View Post
Texas A&M University clones animals. Some people had a pet Brahma bull they really loved. When he was old and dying, they took cells and had him cloned at A&M and the cell was implanted in a cow. A Brahma calf resulted. When the people took the calf home and turned him out, he went right to the exact bull wallow where their first bull used to sleep, and the calf slept there too. True story.

Myself, I know that a special one can never be replaced by cloning. The genes may be the same, but thats not all there is to it. Although it would be interesting to raise a clone of myself, because I never had any children. I would sure would have that kids number.
Cloning is still not perfected, the DNA is old and the telomeres have been worn away with time so when you clone the animal the DNA is still just as old as the original animal resulting in a short and sickly life for the poor clone.. check out the story of dolly the lamb.

SQUIRREL!
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post #20 of 166 (permalink) Old 08-09-2018, 11:07 AM
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Well sure it worked for the old bull at Texas A&M. And he was on his last legs.

He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast;
He prayeth best who loveth best
All creatures great and small;
For the dear God who loveth us,
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