Iceberg Breeders - Page 24 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #231 of 240 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by carmspack View Post
nice thought - however I really really do not think so .
it is much more than conformation that needs to be corrected .
Yeah, like the old boy's club and the hunger for money that made this all possible...
Dr. Raiser was briefly president of the SV, but when he found out just how bad things were, and how much resistance there was to change, he either quit or was driven out. Not sure which, it was a number of years ago, and I wasn't paying much attention.
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post #232 of 240 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 12:09 PM
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he was driven out .

further to your questions on the wolfy-thing -- the animals your are asking about are NOT GSD

that is an important detail.

they are relatively newish -- almost designer -- definitely bred for cosmetic or appearance appearing
to wolf like -- but there are many examples of this

they appeal to vanity -- the "fireside wolf"

they were not , are not , bred for work

it is interesting but maybe best handled in a new thread

this iceberg breeders is so handy as a reference to GSD genetics , discussing past history and possible futures that maybe it should be kept focused so that those new to the breed and wanting to learn don't get confused ?

Carmen

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post #233 of 240 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 12:34 PM
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Yes, had no intention of discussing those dogs here. Just wanted to know how wolf blood would affect temperament of whatever dog it was crossed with.
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post #234 of 240 (permalink) Old 11-13-2017, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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I agree Carmen that wolf should be separate issue. I question if iceberg breeders is of much value to many in the breed today. The mindset of folks today on the breed is very similar to mindset that everyone that participates gets a trophy. 🤔
There are really no faults in the breed today, it just depends on what your priorities are and that justifies the breeding program. So, the breed will travel itís merry way, and the standard will decrease in value as the mass appeal of breeding so everyone can own this breed will continue.🤷*♀️
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post #235 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-28-2018, 11:50 AM
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I agree Carmen that wolf should be separate issue. I question if iceberg breeders is of much value to many in the breed today. The mindset of folks today on the breed is very similar to mindset that everyone that participates gets a trophy. ��
There are really no faults in the breed today, it just depends on what your priorities are and that justifies the breeding program. So, the breed will travel it’s merry way, and the standard will decrease in value as the mass appeal of breeding so everyone can own this breed will continue.��*♀️

this is one of the saddest posts I have seen.....albeit so REAL!

Have been going through this thread again after recommending it to quite a few people looking for puppies....and some wanting to get into IPO or other sports. So much to think about ....last year some posts I wish I had addressed.....the discussion about a book that was written 25 +/- years ago....so much has changed in training and breeding to accommodate the training - or vice versa! The comments about Maineiche breeding prior to the Fero era....those lines that Carmen and I both are carrying on into the future - but the sadness and frustration when so many in the breed do not understand the bottlenecks they are building in both bloodlines and type...the changes that are showing in not just the SL but the WL dogs....when I get told you only get one or 2 pups that can work in a litter from a WG WL breeder/judge....heck I had all 3 males and 1 female title in my K litter, and 2 others that worked but due to owners lifestyles and priorities, did not title.


I get into "discussions" all the time about a 'standard" - a blueprint of the ideal all breeders should strive to meet...and get so much hate from so many over it. The sadness I feel watching ASL dogs - the rabid mob mentality of the ASL crowd when even a small comment is made on a photo....even down to the much revered handler/judge reigning over the breed jumping on a bandwagon and verbally abusing a person with a contrary opinion.

I think this thread has much for so many to think about. Why we are drawn to the breed, what we want in our dogs and if that meets what the standard describes. The stand is the ideal, we have to strive to attain that ideal....but so may are narrowing their focus - for prey, for ball drive...for color, for heads....I had 2 dogs from different litters and lines working in a group - many LE K9 officers there - they all said dog A is a super sport dog...he will do great, but dog B?? That is not a schutzhund dog, that is a police dog....they all offered to sell him to another department for me....Dog A did do great - competed on a national level sucessfully, Dog B - well life again kept him from attaining his true potential. Yes - titled, koered, impressing all who actually SEE him....producing well with progeny in sport and LE...such an opportunity for breeders to bring in what all say is missing...maybe in other hands he would have been high profile - those who see him know what he is ....so much to offer...

What saddens me is not only the mass production by greedy people with no knowledge, but the commercial breeders making a living by producing 6, 8 and more litters a year who still appear and present their breedings as more than pet breedings....when in reality, 90% of their pups will never be able to be more than companion dogs....but - that is the market...for not only the big black and red dogs and the "rare" colors and atrocities, but now, so many want and breeders cashing in on big pretty black sable dogs....

Lee

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post #236 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Itís why I post so infrequently, the new normal has new experts, selling a different concept!
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post #237 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 04:37 PM
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I week or two ago, not sure what thread it was, I remember SabisMom (I think) mentioning a few threads including one on "Iceberg breeders" , so I'm posting it to bookmark it. If you want to get into some long but good conversation about the breeding in general, faults, etc. and all things in between, good thread to read. If not, I've bumped it so I can find it later.
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post #238 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cvamoca View Post
I week or two ago, not sure what thread it was, I remember SabisMom (I think) mentioning a few threads including one on "Iceberg breeders" , so I'm posting it to bookmark it. If you want to get into some long but good conversation about the breeding in general, faults, etc. and all things in between, good thread to read. If not, I've bumped it so I can find it later.
It was not me, but this is a great thread with information that should be shared and studied. Thanks for bringing it up again.
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post #239 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-17-2019, 07:09 PM
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I have many quotes from this thread copied and bookmarked for reference!
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post #240 of 240 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvamoca View Post
I week or two ago, not sure what thread it was, I remember SabisMom (I think) mentioning a few threads including one on "Iceberg breeders" , so I'm posting it to bookmark it. If you want to get into some long but good conversation about the breeding in general, faults, etc. and all things in between, good thread to read. If not, I've bumped it so I can find it later.
Go check the "stickies" in the "Breed Standard" section, Prey monkeys and The fat lady has begun to.... Are both a good read.
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