Somehow my bought from a random family dog is a treasure - Page 6 - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #51 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for this post. This is exactly why I believe in SOME accidental litters. Yes frankly, most of them are lies. But I’ve also known people who have been in similar situations to that.

I also know without a doubt that the family I got my dog from wasn’t a breeder. We’ve now become friends with them and have mutual friends through them and they have not bred the dogs again. I think it was so hard on them and upsetting to try to find good homes that it actually fueled them to become really great dog owners.
Except that I opted for a spay abort and choked on the massive vet bill. I learned. I trust no one and nothing with my dogs well being. No fence, latch, lock, door or expert is as safe for my dogs as my own eyes and my love for them.
I believe that we all make mistakes. I believe that it's the only way we can learn. It isn't about making mistakes, it's what we learn from them, what we take away. Sadly a good many dog owners learn that puppies=$$, so even if the first litter was a legit accident they learn the wrong lesson. I hope that the folks your girl came from remain sincere in their plan for no more litters.
I trusted family with my puppy and she got her face bit at an early age by a relatives small dog. My blood literally B.O.I.L.S. when I think about it. Luckily it never affected her. It scarred me for life however and made me an overprotective psychopath.

So I absolutely agree with you. Sometimes we do have to learn a lesson the hard way but we sure do learn it! I really hope they stick to no more litters as well.
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post #52 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 06:54 PM
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Thank you for this post. This is exactly why I believe in SOME accidental litters. Yes frankly, most of them are lies. But I’ve also known people who have been in similar situations to that.

I also know without a doubt that the family I got my dog from wasn’t a breeder. We’ve now become friends with them and have mutual friends through them and they have not bred the dogs again. I think it was so hard on them and upsetting to try to find good homes that it actually fueled them to become really great dog owners.
I am sorry, but if you produce 1 puppy, 1, you are a breeder. End of story.

That you decided it was a lot of work, and a lot of heartache, and you do not want to do that again, does not make the fact that you were a breeder untrue. If you own the bitch when it was mated, you were the breeder. If you own the stud, then you are also a breeder. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A BREEDER.

I love Jchrest's remark about the person crying when they hand over the pup -- that doesn't mean the person didn't want to make puppies. It may mean that they are sorry to see this one go. It may mean that they are putting on a show for you. They did not send you the clip they made of the celebration of the two-week point where if you brought the dog back you wouldn't get your money back -- probably puts professional football receiver's end zone dance to shame. JK. (No, I do not celebrate D+14 day.)

Really though, when you folks justify getting your pups from a breeder, because they are not really a breeder, it is really, really offensive to breeders. I mean forget it that they do not have to wait until the bitch os of age, and they can use a dog for conveiience only, and that they don't need to jump through any of the hoops to try to make the puppy as healthy or have proper temperament and all that. They can make tons of mistakes when it comes to socializing, don't need to worry about what they are feeding, don't have to have them in suitable space or cleanliness or anything. You buy from them because the puppy is was a "mistake." And then the person really isn't as bad as all that, because they are not actually "a breeder." Like being a breeder is much worse, the scum of the earth. Unbelievable.

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Last edited by selzer; 09-14-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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post #53 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 07:06 PM
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Sabis mom, ok, in your neighborhood, where the AC will walk into a yard with full grown GSDs and put them in with a couple more full grown GSDs, maybe you should put a padlock on that hooded kennel, then that wouldn't have happened that day. But really that is so unlikely. Not everyone would spay-abort in that situation. But 1 out of 500,000 accidental litters, is indeed not what the bitch owner wanted, doesn't prove the point.

If MY dog warden put my dog in with another dog, they would be getting an earful because it is VERY possible that the intact bitches they may put together will do serious damage to each other.

Odie, Joy-Joy
Bear Cub, Hepsi-Pepsi
Cujo2, Karma Chameleon
Ramona the Pest, Kojak -- who loves you baby?
Tiny Tinnie, Susie's Uzzi, Kaiah -- The Baby Monster.
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post #54 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Sabis mom, ok, in your neighborhood, where the AC will walk into a yard with full grown GSDs and put them in with a couple more full grown GSDs, maybe you should put a padlock on that hooded kennel, then that wouldn't have happened that day. But really that is so unlikely. Not everyone would spay-abort in that situation. But 1 out of 500,000 accidental litters, is indeed not what the bitch owner wanted, doesn't prove the point.

If MY dog warden put my dog in with another dog, they would be getting an earful because it is VERY possible that the intact bitches they may put together will do serious damage to each other.
Ok so you can admit accidental litters do exist...
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post #55 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for this post. This is exactly why I believe in SOME accidental litters. Yes frankly, most of them are lies. But I’ve also known people who have been in similar situations to that.

I also know without a doubt that the family I got my dog from wasn’t a breeder. We’ve now become friends with them and have mutual friends through them and they have not bred the dogs again. I think it was so hard on them and upsetting to try to find good homes that it actually fueled them to become really great dog owners.
I am sorry, but if you produce 1 puppy, 1, you are a breeder. End of story.

That you decided it was a lot of work, and a lot of heartache, and you do not want to do that again, does not make the fact that you were a breeder untrue. If you own the bitch when it was mated, you were the breeder. If you own the stud, then you are also a breeder. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING A BREEDER.

I love Jchrest's remark about the person crying when they hand over the pup -- that doesn't mean the person didn't want to make puppies. It may mean that they are sorry to see this one go. It may mean that they are putting on a show for you. They did not send you the clip they made of the celebration of the two-week point where if you brought the dog back you wouldn't get your money back -- probably puts professional football receiver's end zone dance to shame. JK. (No, I do not celebrate D+14 day.)

Really though, when you folks justify getting your pups from a breeder, because they are not really a breeder, it is really, really offensive to breeders. I mean forget it that they do not have to wait until the bitch os of age, and they can use a dog for conveiience only, and that they don't need to jump through any of the hoops to try to make the puppy as healthy or have proper temperament and all that. They can make tons of mistakes when it comes to socializing, don't need to worry about what they are feeding, don't have to have them in suitable space or cleanliness or anything. You buy from them because the puppy is was a "mistake." And then the person really isn't as bad as all that, because they are not actually "a breeder." Like being a breeder is much worse, the scum of the earth. Unbelievable.
I mean frankly to a lot of the world, breeders are the scum of the earth.. I sure wouldn’t want to be one with the stigma attached. Most of my friends who got dogs from expensive breeders are so ashamed they don’t even want to discuss it. I’m ashamed that I won’t adopt in the future since I’ve always done that.

But like I’ve said repeatedly, I know how lucky I got and I will get future GSD’s from a breeder.
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post #56 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 08:05 PM
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I mean frankly to a lot of the world, breeders are the scum of the earth.. I sure wouldnít want to be one with the stigma attached. Most of my friends who got dogs from expensive breeders are so ashamed they donít even want to discuss it. Iím ashamed that I wonít adopt in the future since Iíve always done that.

But like Iíve said repeatedly, I know how lucky I got and I will get future GSDís from a breeder.
There's no stigma. Ashamed? Get over it. Enjoy the dog you want and tell people to mind their own frigging business.
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post #57 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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I mean frankly to a lot of the world, breeders are the scum of the earth.. I sure wouldn’t want to be one with the stigma attached. Most of my friends who got dogs from expensive breeders are so ashamed they don’t even want to discuss it. I’m ashamed that I won’t adopt in the future since I’ve always done that.

But like I’ve said repeatedly, I know how lucky I got and I will get future GSD’s from a breeder.
There's no stigma. Ashamed? Get over it. Enjoy the dog you want and tell people to mind their own frigging business.
Where I live, there’s 1000% a stigma. Without a doubt. Even my parents after I told them my plans to get my next dog from a breeder were horrified. People tell you confidentially here if they got a dog from a breeder.
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post #58 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 08:32 PM
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A stigma implies there's something wrong, these are just peoples opinions and there's no reason to let them matter.

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post #59 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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A stigma implies there's something wrong, these are just peoples opinions and there's no reason to let them matter.
A stigma is something that takes away from someone’s character or reputation. In my area, people think something is wrong with you if you ever purchase a dog. I’ve quite literally had people test the waters about telling me where they got their dog.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be getting my next GSD from a breeder. But it is something horrifying in my city.
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post #60 of 65 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 09:41 PM
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Breeder shaming bothers you? There are stigma’s attached to any non BB where I live. I don’t own a single one. People seem perplexed when they find out I have GSD type dogs. Why would I want a GSD when I could have a BB? Um, because that was my personal choice and none of your dang business. I’ve never been ashamed, or fallen victim to breeder shaming. And if at any point someone tried, good luck to them, because they are going to get a very long lecture about ethical breeders vs BYB’s they got their dog from. One of the few things I value in this world is ethical breeders. They health test their dogs, they put in so much time and effort planning each litter, who will breed to whom, what the outcome may be, and if there is a pup in that litter than has unwanted or undesirable traits, they either keep the dogs, or sell it for considerably less as a pet companion dog to someone who understands, and they don’t breed that pair again. They rarely, if ever, make a profit on the litter, and spend time with the litter to find out what has been produced and what temperament and drive is right for each owner. And that isn’t even the hard part. The hard part is all the people slamming them for breeding period. Or the people that blame every little thing that may be wrong with their dog on the breeder, even though they never spent more than a handful of days putting any work into the dog beyond potty training. The new owners will take their new pup straight to Petco, Petsmart, whatever store they choose for buying all the “fun” puppy stuff, regardless of the fact that they were told not to bring them to public places until x amount of vaccinations. Then when the puppy has been walking around the pet store picking up all kinds of yuck, and the puppy gets sick, it’s the breeders fault. Not the owner for not following proper protocol, nope, it’s the breeders fault. Breeders have to fight for their to maintain their good name when people want to lay blame at the breeders fault, instead of owning up to their own mistakes.

I can tell you from personal experience, having a litter is HARD. And I didn’t get them until they were 4 weeks old. That’s a whole month I didn’t have to worry about the health of the bitch, or the health of the puppies. I didn’t have to stay up all night on labor watch, and then stay up another night while the bitch was in active labor and chart each puppy as they arrive. I didn’t have to worry about xrays or extra vet visits to make sure the bitch was in good health, and to see about how many pups she would be dropping. And I certainly didn’t have to worry if this would be a successful litter. Still the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and I will tell you right now, I applaud those breeders who do it ethically, who put the work in, because you have to be hardcore dedicated to the breed to produce a healthy litter.

People give me crap because I have ONE breeder dog out of countless rescues spanning over 20 years. I shut them down real quick when I explain how their dog came to be. You didn’t rescue a pup from a BYB, you lined their pockets and encouraged them to keep on breeding. Yes, the litter is here regardless, but the next one is here because you perpetuated the BYB’s choice to breed crap genetics into a cash cow by buying from a BYB to “rescue” the pup. You bought a dog from a BYB, and saying otherwise is insulting to real breeders and rescue people.

This is a hot button for me. This is a topic that makes my blood boil, as I’m one of the ones that has dedicated their lives to saving these crap BYB dogs from euthanasia when they are dumped with behavior and health problems. I’m the one that hears REAL breeder bashing and take my time correcting their skewed views on breeders. Don’t shop, adopt, has become such a slogan that somehow this is the only way to get a dog without being bashed. Where do you think those dogs CAME FROM.

I could write a book on this topic and still have more to say. But my main point is, why do you care if you’re shamed for purchasing from a breeder rather than a shelter or rescue?! You shouldn’t have to defend yourself for doing the right thing. If more people purchased from ethical breeders, there wouldn’t be so many dogs sitting in a kennel at the shelter waiting to be euthanized for overcrowding.

Okay, off my soap box now.
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