DDR lineage inquiry - Torheit's Tosca - German Shepherd Dog Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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DDR lineage inquiry - Torheit's Tosca

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The Origin of the DDR Type

Good Afternoon everyone!

I am hoping that someone with knowledge of DDR Shepherds can help possibly answer my questions. We have a beautiful 4 year old DDR male named Braxx v. Birkenwald. He's out of Remington v. Kistha Haus and Girlie v. Konigsdorf.

In my research on Remi's side i have found one of his great Dam's was Torheit's Tosca CD (b. 1979). She was bred with DDR Bill von der Wahrburger StraßeSCHH.2,FH to produce Torheit's Bronte CD (b. 1986) who was bred with DDR V*Quindt vom Baruther Land*SCHH3 FH.

I haven't found any articles on either dam (I'm assuming cause they were companion dogs?) Does anyon have any knowledge of their lineage? Given that Bronte was born in 86 and her dad was from DDR, I'm assuming their breeding was intentional by DDR and by their standards? Tosca has MANY DDR founding lines or siblings to founding lines in her pedigree. And big name rated HGH. So I wonder if she was chosen for their breeding program intentionally to add to their genetic diversity? (Especially since her daughter Bronte was bred to a full DDR as well. )

Some of Tosca's lines include:

VA (BSZS) Trick vom SchloßfelsenLUXEMBURG SIEGER 1938 SCHH3

VA1 Alf vom NordfelsenSCHH3, FH

VA Sigbert HeidegrundZPr/MH1 DDR Line VIII

SGR 1925 CH (US) Klodo vom BoxbergSCHH

1929 SGR, International Champion, DDR Line X II (Foundation)Utz vom Haus SchüttingZPr

Sieger Odin vom Stolzenfels ZPr HD-DDR Line VIII

VA7 Onyx vom ForellenbachSCHH3, FH DDR Line X III

VA2 Lex PreußenblutSCHH3, FH

V Racker vom Osnabrücker LandSchH3/FH

V Rosel vom Osnabrücker Land SchH1 (full sister same litter Rolf v. Osnabruker Land)

V Atlas vom PiastendammSchH3

SIEGER 1913 (NL) V Jung Tell von der KriminalpolizeiPH

1910 SGR Tell von der KriminalpolizeiPH

V Munko von Boll HGH

V Horst von Boll PH

SG Lex von Colonia AgrippinaSchH1

V6 GV CH(US) Troll vom RichterbachSCHH3, FH, ROM

V Ingo vom PiastendammSchH3

VA1 Bodo vom Lierberg SCHH3, FH (full brother same litter Bernd v. Lierberg)

VA2 SGR(HOL) Ferdl von der Secretainerie SchH

Lex von der Polizeihundestelle Lüttich 1918 SZ 78684 (296654 Vol XXXVIII) HD-Breeder:Polizeihundestelle Lüttich

Thank you!!!!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 09:46 AM
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I'm not sure what you are asking, but you dog goes back to many DDR GSDs as well as some West German working line dogs with some nice dogs in the pedigree.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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I am wondering since the DDR was still active until 1989 and Bronte was born in 1986 if anyone may know if Tosca was brought into the DDR program to refresh the genetic diversity since the sire was full DDR.

Due to Bronte's age, timing before the wall's collapse, Tosca's founding DDR lines/HGH lines and fact Bronte was also bred to a full DDR it really makes me wonder if that's the case.. but I cannot find anything on either Dam..
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 09:57 AM
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Since the question you pose are on the sires side, I would contact the sires owner/kennel (Kistha Haus). They could very well give you some in depth info on the lineage and breeding pairs of Remington's lines.

Also, looks like a new member just replied to a thread and offered info about their dog from that Kennel and it sounds like they (kennel owner) would be open to speaking with a person whose pup was sired by one of their dogs. I did a google on the kennel and they do have contact info on their web site. Often a breeder will choose a stud or bitch from personal knowledge of that dog and/or lineage and proven track record of progeny from real life work. Not what is found posted to the web.

A few yrs back I did some deep web searching on my guys pedigree to help answer some question I had. It was an interesting journey.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Heartandsoul do you remember which thread that was on?

I definitely can/will reach out to Kistha Haus but since this goes back about 7/8 generations from Remi and the Dam's aren't showing up in searches, I wasn't sure if they'd even have the answer. Many on this feed seem to have a diverse knowledge of the old registries though which was why I posted here. 😊
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 12:38 PM
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I saw the kennel name on this thread https://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-breeders.html in the last post on the third pg.

There's no doubt about the wealth of knowledge here and often breeders that have been breeding a long time do have info ondogs that far back and can pinpoint specific traits that have come through that far back. Remmi's Kennel site info, I would think they may have what your looking for as another option for you to tap into.

I'm just a hobby pedigree reader that knows next to nothing but I find the subject fascinating when it comes up in threads so I dig a little and sometimes gain knowledge.

With my own digging for my guy, I did find answers that I was searching for. It help to understand him better and somewhat tweak how I handle him/adjust my own thought process for the better.

"If you can't see his soul when you look in his eyes, then you need a seeing-eye dog"
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2019, 01:33 PM
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Considering that the dogs that you are inquiring about are AKC registered dogs, it seems more likely to me that the breedings were done here in the USA, not in East Germany. Therefor, not part of the DDR breeding programs. There were DDR dogs bred outside East Germany during the time of the official DDR program (used in West German and Belgian breeding programs for example), just as there were dogs from West Germany (and probably other places as well) brought into the DDR program on occasion.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 06:25 AM
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I had dogs from these lines,( Barutherland, Torheit’s Bronte, and Bill vd Wa....., but I don’t understand what you are asking.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Clean-Air System View Post
Considering that the dogs that you are inquiring about are AKC registered dogs, it seems more likely to me that the breedings were done here in the USA, .
Ken gave you your answer.

Torheit's Tosca is AKC along with her mother, putting the dam side bred here mixed with DDR. If you want to understand WHY they bred the lines they did, you will need to find the breeder here in thee United States (Torheit's)

I see Hena C has Bronte in the R litter. You could try to contact them, still an active kennel, for insight. Since Hena C works at breeding DDR lines, my guess is that Tosca was DDR lines registered her in the US thru AKC.





Last edited by Jax08; 03-16-2019 at 09:18 AM.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 08:41 PM
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Torheit's Tosca - Torheit's Tosca looks to be pretty much 100% West German, with a couple AKC lines that go back all the way to between the World Wars before going back to SZ registered dogs ... I'd say it was almost certainly breedings done here in the States with DDR dogs that had been exported, probably through West Germany before coming to the US, as the DDR sires also sired some SZ registered dogs as seen via their progeny listings on Pedigree Database.

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